new PLD job ability idea, may solve problems

[Greatguardian]

Yes.

If it's a problem, report the post and see what happens.

There is no argument, because you're making two assumptions that are not or not always met. Firstly you assume that you have other people/jobs available, sometimes you don't. Secondly, you assume that you can choose the time you're gonna do this at, blunt, slashing or piercing. However, if you saved up TEs and stay in zone to get random KIs/Atmas/Abyssites while you're there, you're not gonna wait till piercing and then ask a RNG friend to come out. You're gonna try to make the best of it, and PLD is great for that. It still isn't the best, and I know that, but it doesn't change the fact that it's good. You seem to be annoyed because it's the best, and I knew you were gonna say that:


Also, PLD can do all WAR red !! except for Shadow of Darkness. Also, not sure why you mention slashing when PLD can do 9/15 blunt WS. And this thread is the one I'm talking about.

Trying for Blue in Slashing hours is a waste. You can very much handle doing something else for 15 minutes in order to move the Vana'diel clock into a better position for triggers. Mentioning Paladin's Blunt triggers again becomes irrelevant because Monk and White Mage are still the only jobs in the game that get Asuran Fists and Hexa Strike respectively. Having 9/15 blunt WS may as well be the same as having 0/15 blunt WS if the /random lands on something Paladin does not have. There is no consolation prize for having "Everything but" what you need to proc.

Calling out job changes/availability is also just silly. Someone coming Paladin because it's their only job does not make Paladin useful. It simply means that said player doesn't have a useful job.

The point is, that if it's moaning or whining or bitching is often judged by the wrong people. People often call any kind of criticism they don't agree with moaning to make it seem less respectable (happened in this thread too).

It happens. There is also very real whining/moaning/bitching, and the fact that it is sometimes misrepresented does not mean that it does not happen plenty.

How do you figure?

This is a misunderstanding. That sentence is sarcasm, and is followed immediately the "No." at the beginning of the next quote as elaboration.

Speculation.

How often does the Development Team completely overhaul fundamental game mechanics? I haven't seen a change on the scale you're talking about since the 2H buff.

Abyssea talk again. Also, I didn't say to raise the cap to 100%, I just said to raise it. 50% reduction isn't much. Obviously it's about moderation, just like with the haste cap. Saying 80% PDT is too much is like saying 80% haste is too much, but I don't see anyone complaining about that (although I do remember a lot of complaining when it was reduced).

Just because those two particular examples are from Abyssea does not mean that the potential abuse of this mechanic is limited to Abyssea. Messing with PDT and MDT is extremely dangerous ground. It's already ridiculous easy for some jobs to reduce damage taken to near-nothing.

So you're ok with the fact that they force one item on you to be efficient? Ochain stands in no relation to any shield before, in fact I dare to say it stands in no relation to any item before. It's the Black Belt +3 for Paladins. Something overpowered like this needs to be adjusted in some way, it's a lot more broken than Aegis was at 75. Either way, right now PLDs are forced to use Ochain, and ignoring an entire part of the game dynamic for one single item, I'm sure that's not what the dev team had in mind.

It does not matter if being "Good" requires Ochain or not. Any buff to make normal shields worthwhile is going to make Ochain absolutely untouchable, and it's already God-Mode as is. I don't see them suddenly excluding the "Ultimate Shield" from a Shield buff either.

Completely wrong, this enmity adjustment has nothing to do with PLDs at all. It's something that's bothered me for the longest time, inside and outside of Abyssea, with or without PLDs, or any tanks for that matter. In fact, just changing that the way I wanted it to wouldn't help PLDs tank better without some other adjustments.

Changing the very core of how the game works at this stage of the game's life is outlandish at best.

While it didn't really apply here, it's still wrong. Some jobs depend on a certain game dynamic, so a broken dynamic results in a broken job. The real argument is whether or not it's broken, and in my opinion it is.

I dare say it's working as intended, ol' chap.

How do you define strong? Stronger than people expected it to be? Yes, definitely. I loved going to Nyzul on PLD just to prove to bandwagon SAMs I could out damage them. Strong enough to generate enmity through damage? To some degree, yes, unless it was a HNM (before Atonement). Strong enough to compete with decent damage dealers on any kind of important NM? No.

This is exactly the point. Yeah, there's no way a Paladin (with or without a shield) is going to keep up with a real DD. Never has been, either. But it can definitely school weaker DDs, and there's nothing wrong with a PLD being able to DD. Dealing damage is an effective way to gain Enmity. That is how it is. Given the choice between enhanced DD capability for Enmity, and a complete overhaul of the Enmity system such that Paladin no longer has to deal damage, I dare say the former is much more likely to happen and work out.

People are completely misrepresenting the Enmity system when they complain about current content. The amount of damage that is required to cap Enmity is based on the level of the monster. Monsters outside Abyssea are a lower level than us. Not only are we dealing bonus damage to them via level correction, but we are able to hit the hate cap with less damage because they are at a low level. Monsters inside Abyssea are a high enough level to raise the damage required to hit the hate cap, but at the same time we are running around with Atmas and Furtherance buffs out the ass and lopping off 5k WS every 20 seconds.

The fact of the matter is, there is not a single NM in the game as it stands right now where the Enmity system is even intended to work properly. The solution to a hell of a lot of these Enmity woes comes in the form of Overworld NMs which are higher than level 90; aka Voidwatch.

[Airget]

With Abyssea PLD doesn't get to see much action since other jobs can take the meat of the damage or evade and limit the amount of damage they tank. While this will most likely change once we are welcomed to Voidwalkers, it does appear that maybe a few more traits would help PLD be the Top tank.

JT. Guardian:
Decrease enmity lost and dmg taken when taking on multiple foes
2mobs=-5% Enmity loss, -2% dmg taken
3=-10%, -4%
4=-15% -6%
5=-20% -8%
--
JA Holy Shield: Duration 30 seconds Recast 5 min
Target Ally receives a barrier in which all dmg is dealt to the PLD, the target recieves enmity loss for the dmg taken on the PLD.
--
JA Blinding Light: Duration 1min Recast 10 mins
AOE causing Enmity Boost on the user and Pax(enmity down) effect on all other allies
--
Just throwing some ideas out there though the main concerns with PLD come from their effectiveness in abyssea or the fact that other jobs can do just as well if not better because of the atmas and enhancements they can receive. Overall maybe changes to PLD won't be needed once the new content is released outside of abyssea but only time will tell after the next VU.

[Malamasala]

I think all you PLDs need to take one step back and observe the community. It should be perfectly clear to you people that a PLD was only ever invited because WHMs had a hard time keeping other jobs alive. Just remembering the bird camps should make it obvious that when monsters don't hit hard enough, tanks are out of the picture.

The solution is more or less that you need all melee jobs to die easier. That is your only path back into parties. Give PLD "resist zombie" and then add monsters with en-zombie on and you should solve it all. Or rather you don't solve it, you make PLD the only tank and all other jobs should stay away from the NM and only use RNGs, BLMs, and SMNs.

Of course you could all also treat FFXI as a game, and invite any job to any activity and adapt to that... but that wouldn't be easy mode any longer.

[Alkalinehoe]

or B) be in an alliance full of /thf o.o

lolwut....


I had to double take.

[kewitt]

It's not that PLD need more hate, it's that DD need less. Give Sch/Brd/Cor a eminty down effect. Reduces over time more quickly or reduces the gain of eminty.

Cor Roll
lucky number 90% off normal eminty
unlucky 10%

Bust -10% so gain eminty faster Which would be almost good.
Here is the skill in this..
Cor > Eminty down everyone in the party > Get PLD alone Bust > uses fold to be able to roll something else for other people.

this would atleast see people tring to get 11 on this one roll.

[Greatguardian]

It's not that PLD need more hate, it's that DD need less. Give Sch/Brd/Cor a eminty down effect. Reduces over time more quickly or reduces the gain of eminty.

Cor Roll
lucky number 90% off normal eminty
unlucky 10%

Bust -10% so gain eminty faster Which would be almost good.
Here is the skill in this..
Cor > Eminty down everyone in the party > Get PLD alone Bust > uses fold to be able to roll something else for other people.

this would atleast see people tring to get 11 on this one roll.

SCH already has an Enmity Down spell.

[Bubeeky]

but don't sch hate that spell? I've never seen a sch use it

[Greatguardian]

I never said it was a useful spell. I just said it was already in the game.

[Malamasala]

SCH already has an Enmity Down spell.

So does BRD. It is just that nobody wants to bother with enmity (like inviting THFs, SMNs, DRGs etc). The only thing the average player wants to do is damage, and then they can turn off their brains and drink some Cola.

[Greatguardian]

So does BRD. It is just that nobody wants to bother with enmity (like inviting THFs, SMNs, DRGs etc). The only thing the average player wants to do is damage, and then they can turn off their brains and drink some Cola.

I take a THF to everything and DRG is one of the best DDs in the game for all "Doing damage" matters. SMN is still crap though, so 1/3 isn't so bad.