new PLD job ability idea, may solve problems

[rog]

If you want PLD to tank, the only way to accomplish this reasonably would be to allow PLD to gain more enmity then any other job, to always break the current hate cap everyone else is stuck at, so that they can stay above everyone else on the hate list at all times.

Still would not be enough.

[Orson]

If you want PLD to tank, the only way to accomplish this reasonably would be to allow PLD to gain more enmity then any other job, to always break the current hate cap everyone else is stuck at, so that they can stay above everyone else on the hate list at all times.

Without turning Pld into a better DD than well DDs there's little place in the game for it at the moment. If they created some really tough enemies that basically required a Pld with Ochain to tank then they'd have a place. The problem is in all cases right now another job mitigates damage well enough to survive with the same support and does more damage.

[Zumi]

Heres the problems that exist with PLD

* Endgame NMs can not kill melee very easily thus the need decreasing the need for a tank. Regular melee jobs do more damage then PLD and have the same if not more in some cases MNK, Nin damage mitigation then a PLD. So PLD really isn't needed anymore to tank anything. Maybe if mobs were harder but then they would have to give PLD more mitigation then other jobs.

*The damage dealer jobs reach the hate cap really easily so then the mob just bounces around whoever hit it last not really allowing for actual tanking.

[Atomic_Skull]

Details: Reduces all forms of damage taken by 50%, and instead of losing enmity with each time you’re hit, you gain it. This move could also generate a sum of hate just by using it on yourself

The enmity cap will still prevent you from holding hate against supercharged melees. what PLD needs is an increase in their enmity caps via job traits.

[Greatguardian]

People play jobs in the manner in which they are most effective in their current state. People use jobs which are most effective for the content they are doing at the current time. There is no static identity. Paladin of 2004 is not Paladin of 2010. If it was, Terra's Staff would still be god-tier.

[wish12oz]

People play jobs in the manner in which they are most effective in their current state. People use jobs which are most effective for the content they are doing at the current time. There is no static identity. Paladin of 2004 is not Paladin of 2010. If it was, Terra's Staff would still be god-tier.

You haven't lived til you've fought Tiamat using pld/wars in full koenig and terra staves as tanks, oh and aerial armor rotations. That was some pro stuff back when grand wyrms first came out. lol

[Arcon]

Oh okay, because it's an opinion I'm not allowed to say it's totally dumb. Gotcha.

Yes.

(NO, Blue and Red procs are NOT going for it and if you want I can write out exactly why PLD is worthless in the Trigger department)

Please do. You mentioned PLD being useless for that before, and I explained how it was wrong, unless your definition of worthless is not being the best at all at the same time. If you know more than me, please elaborate. PLD is one of the best general stagger jobs in the game right now. It's also a good healing job inside Abyssea, same as anything with access to Cure IV.

If "Paladin" in FFXI is not your white knight ideal, play a game where it is or get over it instead of moaning about it all the time. Same goes for every other "Cliche" job.

Moaning is basically what these forums are for. Or call it constructive criticism. Or call it random suggestions. You'd be right on all accounts.

To get on topic, as several people pointed out before, PLD doesn't need to be fixed, the game needs to be fixed:

• Defense is drastically underpowered, increase the value of this status attribute
• Possibly adjust PDT/MDT/MDB calculations accordingly. 50% cap for PDT/MDT is nothing to write home about.
• Increase shield block rate or effect, possibly both

  Some people suggested 100% block rate, or 100% damage blocked, which is ridiculous. But right now, shield doesn't give us much of a boost, considering we're a natively blood tanking job.

• Revamp the enmity system

  Maybe I shouldn't have posted it in the Battle Contents forum, since it barely got any views. There have been a few suggestions to adjust enmity on here, most of which didn't make sense. I suggested a new system here. This would alleviate some issues inherent to the enmity system right now.

Paladins don't need to be better damage dealers if the enmity system is adjusted. They were never supposed to shine in damage. People are blinded by Abyssea, which is really pointless to get upset about. It's one single event, one that will be outdated in a bit, or at least put down to a less important role, which is AF3 farming grounds. Many jobs didn't have uses for particular events/battlefields before, it's the same thing here.

Still, PLD is losing its efficiency even outside of Abyssea, since melee damage gets ever higher, thus enmity generation ever more of a problem. Maybe it will change with the next update, but it doesn't change that these aspects are outdated and could use a redesign. Defense, for example, was always rather useless, enmity cap was always too easy to reach and limited playstyle, etc. Would love to see some of these things addressed.

[Greatguardian]

Yes.

No.

Please do. You mentioned PLD being useless for that before, and I explained how it was wrong, unless your definition of worthless is not being the best at all at the same time. If you know more than me, please elaborate. PLD is one of the best general stagger jobs in the game right now. It's also a good healing job inside Abyssea, same as anything with access to Cure IV.

Blue procs: Worthless because having Sword Blues isn't going to do you any good if you end up with Scythe, or Katana, or any of the myriad other non-PLD Weapon classes in Slashing Blue time. If you are after Blue procs, you should be bringing a MNK and a WHM, period. The second best, but still absolutely horrible option is to bring a THF, DRG, and RNG together for the Piercing time procs. Slashing is absolutely terrible and no one in their right mind should be attempting Blue procs during Slashing hours.

Grellow Procs: Flash. Holy. Banish 2. Banish 3. Unfortunately, if you're doing Grellow within Light-potential hours, you need Banishga 2 to complete your set. In order to get Banishga 2, you need a WHM. If you have a WHM, PLD is redundant at best and useless at worst.

Red Procs: Here is where a lot of people give Paladin way, way more credit than it deserves. Yes, Paladin has a large number of Red procs. Unfortunately, it doesn't have enough of the right ones to make it at all useful in this regard. Every Red proc PLD has, WAR also has. In order for PLD to not be redundant, you have to assume that there is not a WAR in the group.

If there is not a WAR in the group, your best option for additional Red procs becomes Ninja. Unfortunately, a lot of Paladin procs also overlap with Ninja. The only Weaponskills that Paladin has that Ninja does not are Sunburst and Freezebite. Unfortunately, this only brings you up to 12/13 reds. Neither Paladin nor Ninja has Shadow of Death. Since you are assuming that there is not a WAR in the group, this means that the only job which has native access to your last Red proc is Dark Knight. Your only other options are a BST or BLM subbing Warrior or Dark Knight, which is beyond ridiculous.

In a nutshell, in order for Paladin to not be completely redundant for Red procs, your group must not have a Warrior, and must also have a Dark Knight. If you can't figure out what's wrong with that situation, then I just can't say anything else.

If you somehow "Countered" this argument in a previous thread, I did not see it and I'd be more than welcome to hear it again.

Moaning is basically what these forums are for. Or call it constructive criticism. Or call it random suggestions. You'd be right on all accounts.

No. Providing Feedback does not equate to whining, moaning, and bitching in an incoherent mess.

To get on topic, as several people pointed out before, PLD doesn't need to be fixed, the game needs to be fixed:
Defense is drastically underpowered, increase the value of this status attribute

Because job adjustments equate to changing fundamental game mechanics. No. Defense will never be more worthwhile on any existing content, ever. The only way to make Defense worthwhile for potential new content is to tailor-make new NMs whose Attack scores are abysmal but whose Damage scores are massive. I've already mentioned this in another thread. So far, NMs of this type have only been implemented in a single area in the entire game (an Assault). If they were a pilot program, it's obvious that it failed and it is unlikely that we will see this sort of thing in the future.

[*]Possibly adjust PDT/MDT/MDB calculations accordingly. 50% cap for PDT/MDT is nothing to write home about.

This is also never going to happen. The 50% hard cap on player PDT/MDT is extremely important in the preservation of game balance. Removing it, or adjusting it, has the potential to be massively exploited and make Invincible players (see: Ducal Guard SMN pre-nerf, and Ducal Guard BST which is still invincible)

Increase shield block rate or effect, possibly both
Some people suggested 100% block rate, or 100% damage blocked, which is ridiculous. But right now, shield doesn't give us much of a boost, considering we're a natively blood tanking job.

Shields that aren't Ochain are practically worthless as it stands right now. Fortunately, Ochain is fairly easy to get and is practically a license to god-mode so there's no real point in powering up Shields. Any buff given to Shields will positively break the entire game with Ochain.

Revamp the enmity system
[Maybe I shouldn't have posted it in the Battle Contents forum, since it barely got any views. There have been a few suggestions to adjust enmity on here, most of which didn't make sense. I suggested a new system here. This would alleviate some issues inherent to the enmity system right now.

Again, you're trying to alter fundamental game mechanics in order to make Paladin more viable instead of altering Paladin to be more viable in the game's existing rule-set. This is never the way to fix jobs.

Paladins don't need to be better damage dealers if the enmity system is adjusted. They were never supposed to shine in damage. People are blinded by Abyssea, which is really pointless to get upset about. It's one single event, one that will be outdated in a bit, or at least put down to a less important role, which is AF3 farming grounds. Many jobs didn't have uses for particular events/battlefields before, it's the same thing here.

Still, PLD is losing its efficiency even outside of Abyssea, since melee damage gets ever higher, thus enmity generation ever more of a problem. Maybe it will change with the next update, but it doesn't change that these aspects are outdated and could use a redesign. Defense, for example, was always rather useless, enmity cap was always too easy to reach and limited playstyle, etc. Would love to see some of these things addressed.

Paladin has always had the potential to be a strong DD while performing its other duties. The only reason it took so long for people to jump on the bandwagon was a lack of general player knowledge. Atonement did not start PLD DD'ing, it simply made it mainstream. Any PLD worth a shit has had a Vorpal Blade set for half a decade now.

Any solution that requires changing the game to fit Paladin instead of changing Paladin to fit the game is not a solution at all.

[Bubeeky]

I'm don't know about any fixes, as I don't play pld, but I have many pld friends and I have to say, as a whm, watching a thf tank while the pld is regulated to back up healing and no melee just isn't right...you can't tell me that with situations like that that there's nothing wrong with pld and that it doesn't need to be fixed somehow...

[Malamasala]

I'm don't know about any fixes, as I don't play pld, but I have many pld friends and I have to say, as a whm, watching a thf tank while the pld is regulated to back up healing and no melee just isn't right...you can't tell me that with situations like that that there's nothing wrong with pld and that it doesn't need to be fixed somehow...

I've main healed on Summoner until Abyssea. If Summoner didn't get any update in all those years to fix their problem, we certainly do not need to work on PLD for another decade. (We can give them useless stuff though. How about another defender?)