About the new Storyline coming out of the August Update.

[Dragoniks]

Why is that bad? It's part of the game and it's background story line.

The requirements are all expansions installed and Rhapsodies completed. I don't think completing Rhapsodies is too high of an ask since if you haven't finished the story they released years ago why would you be jumping into new storyline anyways? New players have plenty of content to work through, but people who have been around for a long time will have already finished the old content and are the people who will benefit most from new storylines.

It's bad only because i'm doing the stories and did not finished them yet. Near the end of Wog atm then i'll do adoulin and finish rhapsody. Stuck on rhapsody because i have to advance in adoulin first. Only bad for 'cause i don't yet finished all storie and cannot start the new one.

I'm not playing everyday and 24/7 so it will take me some time before i can start it.

[Sirmarki]

It's bad only because i'm doing the stories and did not finished them yet. Near the end of Wog atm then i'll do adoulin and finish rhapsody. Stuck on rhapsody because i have to advance in adoulin first. Only bad for 'cause i don't yet finished all storie and cannot start the new one.

I'm not playing everyday and 24/7 so it will take me some time before i can start it.

That is fine, because what is the rush when you currently have plenty of story that you haven't experienced yet(?)

[radarbabyeater]

The Brygid Cup is literally the funniest mission ever implemented in this game. Kudos to whoever wrote the dialogue/script and choreographed that mission.

[Daniolaut]

agree, FFXI is a gem. It was proclaimed the most profitable FF title ever. Although XIV could have/may have caught it by now?

I personally doubt FFXIV has caught up, or actually ever will catch up to FFXI so long as FFXI is still running.

While XIV boasts of 20 million accounts, they struggle to keep 1 million recurring subscriptions. Which is why they rely so heavily on the mogstation (micro-transactions) for revenue.

Less than 200,000 people do savage raids, and party finder is always 80% or more just savage party finders. Which further indicates very few people stay active or are subscribed at any given time. Most people come for the story, then unsubscribe immediately after.

FFXI on the other hand has a very good retention rate. FFXIV? Not so much.

[Pixela]

FFXIV has a very large cash shop with expensive items, I would guarantee it has.

[Alhanelem]

I personally doubt FFXIV has caught up, or actually ever will catch up to FFXI so long as FFXI is still running.

While XIV boasts of 20 million accounts, they struggle to keep 1 million recurring subscriptions. Which is why they rely so heavily on the mogstation (micro-transactions) for revenue.

Less than 200,000 people do savage raids, and party finder is always 80% or more just savage party finders. Which further indicates very few people stay active or are subscribed at any given time. Most people come for the story, then unsubscribe immediately after.

FFXI on the other hand has a very good retention rate. FFXIV? Not so much.

Wishful thinking. FFXIV's been out for a long time now and has had many times more subs than FFXI. Plus mog station sales which are not insignificant (seriously just log in game and you will see lots of people with mog station items. They also make a ton of money from level/story skip potions and character recustomizations which some people buy on a regular basis)

FFXIV could retain 10% of its customers and still outperform FFXI easily. Most of the "data" you're pulling out of your arse is false. You also seem to forget FFXI had half a million active players at its peak, from about the only time they ever discussed player numbers.

And if you want to know why your numbers are BS, basically no MMO out today releases subscription numbers, There is no way to determine this either, nor is there to determine retention rate (And back in the day FFXI's retention rate wasn't any better- sure it's high today but today it's >99% veterans that have played for years and <1% new players). But FFXIV has dozens of servers all of which have more players on them than FFXI did in its heyday.

I love and cherish FFXI as much as you do but I'm not about to pretend it is more successful.

[Daniolaut]

. Most of the "data" you're pulling..

That is a very strong statement.

But thank you never-the-less!

At the time of this post, I was 100% correct.

This was posted 8/10/2020
On that date:

https://www.gamesradar.com/final-fan...%27%20history.

FFXI was currently stated by Square-Enix as the most profitable Final Fantasy in the series.

FFXI was not surpassed by FFXIV until 2021.

10/13/2021

https://www.eurogamer.net/final-fant...-in-the-series

This article follows offical statements by Square-Enix.

The following is my original post.

I hope you are very much enjoying the new content! I personally started a new character, so it will take me some time to reach back to endgame!

First off a number of things are being discussed here.

Profit/Success
Retention
and
Activity.

So lets restate the points.


1. I was speaking in terms of profit.
2. When speaking in terms of profit I used the words "personally" and "doubt." The first indicates opinion, the second indicates ... as per its definition "a feeling of uncertainty or lack of conviction."
3. The numbers that I have are 100% factual from actual sources.

So if we avoid all numbers, and the history of both games, the costs to develop them, as well as their subscription prices, and just about everything number related, outside of the "20 million accounts" FFXIV has, and FFXI saying "half a million subscribers" as a possible peak, then sure, one could assume FFXIV Is more profitable. But those arent the only facts.

FFXIV doesnt release subscription numbers no, but I never gave any numbers for subscriptions.

It is very easy to estimate "active" players. Here is one example:
https://ffxivcensus.com/

The other 2 numbers “20 million” and “200,000” one is directly stated by Square-Enix. The second is pulled from other similar sources.

200,000 was also extremely generous, and was a “guess.” You seem rather insistent I’m wrong, so I’m going to provide actual factual numbers this time.

Skyslipper
FFXIV mount obtained from Edens Gate Savage. (Which is currently "old" content, as the current raid tier is Edens Verse Savage.)

Players owning Skyslipper according to FFXIVCollect: 19% (no count provided.)

Players owning Skyslipper according to the lodestone, pulled from Lalachievements: 20.1 % (69,322 chars)

Model O.
An even older savage raid mount from Omega Deltascape Savage. Model O.

FFXIVCollect: 12%
Lalachievements: 14.8 % (50,866 chars)

These mounts are "difficult" but again, I was referring to the active playerbase. It takes more time to obtain these, so you generally need to be subscribed longer.
Lets take a look at the people I said "personally doubt" stay subscribed, which are the people who do the story, then unsubscribe.

Company Chocobo mount (easiest to obtain.)
FFXIVCollect: 99%
Lalachievements: 100 % (344,528 chars)


Continuing to use last expansions data...

Wind-up Exdeath. Obtained in Omega Deltscape Story mode.

FFXIVCollect: 63%
Lalachievements: 81.2 % (279385 chars)


Obviously these numbers are not 100% correct, as you can see they vary from site to site, but all sites provide roughly the same numbers. If there were millions and millions of active players, these numbers would be much higher.

If one were to use these numbers sensibly, based off the information, you have a number anywhere between 100,000 and... being overly generous now, 800,000 active subscribers.

If we were to bump the number up to even 2 million to be more generous in our estimates, lets now factor in the point of my statement, that why I doubt FFXIV hasnt reached the revenue/success of FFXI quite yet.

(See next comment response.)



Note Lalachievements pull from 343,992 characters.
Links to sites sorced.

https://ffxivcollect.com/minions
https://ffxivcollect.com/mounts
https://lalachievements.com/en/rarity/minion/global/
https://lalachievements.com/en/rarity/mount/global/

Additional Sites possible Data:
1.5 million subscriptions (this number probably is including the free trial players, I highly doubt this is subscribers.)
https://mmo-population.com/r/ffxiv

647,345
https://ffxivcensus.com/

(Steam specific)
16,326.5
https://steamcharts.com/app/39210

1 million
https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comm...illion_active/
(This number probably is the highest number the game reached at a given time, not something that is ongoing, but the number they peaked at while tracking/watching.)

FFXIV has a very large cash shop with expensive items, I would guarantee it has.

Yes, some players do use the mogstation.

But you have to consider that most all mogstation items are previous seasonal items, so while you do see a large amount of the active playerbase (as provided above is anywhere between 100,000-800,000 maximum) not all of these players have utilized the mogstation to obtain said items, because they were obtainable for free in-game.

Now, why do I think this is not going to push FFXIV over FFXI considering how long both have been running?

Well a major key factor into FFXIV's revenue/profit/success is going to come from also FFXIV 1.0 which we all know, based on numbers alone for revenue, FFXIV 1.0 is drastically going to alter revenue for FFXIV as a whole.

FFXIV 1.0 was not only revamped between 1.0 and 1.23b, which was costly revenue/spending/budget. But 1.0 was running and having content developed for it, while FFXIV 2.0 was being developed, which is further revenue/budget and spending.


So if you take according to the estimate of 500,000 cap for FFXI, and the cap for FFXIV so far, 1 million.

Then you factor in the revenue of mogstation...

Then finally factor in that FFXIV 1.0 likely cost significantly more money to develop than FFXI, then you factor in the cost of developing 2.0, while also running FFXIV 1.0....

Again, key word personally, I personally do not see FFXIV having been more financial successful over FFXI.

So if it is true that FFXI did reach 500,000 subs (which I am not quoting) and FFXIV only just reached 1 million for its peak subscribers, but has to factor the costs from version 1.0 and double development time, I really dont feel Mogstation is going to make up for all of that.

Again that is personal opinion, no one has Mogstation sales, and we dont have revenue gains vs development costs.

But I personally feel, that newer games are more costly to develop than older games, and FFXI currently costs 12.95$ per month, while FFXIV is either 9.99$ (legacy) 12.99$ (Entry account) or 14.99$ (Standard account) With the options for both Legacy and Standard accounts to be reduced 12.99$ per month for Standard, and 7.99$ for Legacy respectively, while purchasing 6 months at a time.

I really dont think XIV can take XI considering all the above.

So lets make some numbers.

FFXI
+$ 12.95$/ Month
+$ 500,000 peak subscribers
x18 years

-$ 1 time development cost
-$ 1 time publishing cost
-$ 1 time advertising cost

FFXIV
+$ 7.99$/ Month (Legacy at 6 months discount)
+$9.99$/ Month (Legacy)
+$12.99/ Month (Entry( and (Standard-6mDsc)
+$ 14.99/ Month (Standard)
+$ Micro Transactions
+$ 1,000,000 peak subscribers
x7 years

(We cant count FFXIV 1.0 as a positive in revenue right? I do hope we can agree there.... if not, then I am at a loss of words.)

-$ 1 time development cost
-$ 1 time development cost
-$ 1 time publishing cost
-$ 1 time publishing cost
-$ 1 time advertising cost
-$ 1 time advertising cost

The reason I have Legacy and the other subscription types crossed out, is because I would think its rather logical that the amount of players using a standard account, and not paying 6 months at a time, is probably going to equal the amount of legacy players. Making the varying costs an even 12.99$ across the board.

With the above lets take a closer look

Using extremely simple math, based off the numbers we know to be "true."

FFXI:
12.95 * 12 (months in a year) * 18 years.=
2,797.20$

FFXIV
12.99 * 12 * 7 =
I'm not going to include 1.0, it is common knowledge it was not profitable.
1,091.16

2,797.2 > 1,091

FFXI wins.

Lets take this further....

FFXI
2797 * 500,000 = 1 398 500 000


FFXIV
1091 * 1 million = 1 091 000 000


1,398,500,000 > 1,091,000,000

On October 27, 2014 Square Enix implemented a cash shop to the Mog Station.
https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki...Mog%20Station.

This means FFXIV needs to make 307.5 million from the Mog Station since 2014, which was roughly (less than) 6 years. That equates to 51.25 million a year.

If we take the maximum subscription for FFXIV at 1 million, and span that for the last 6 years (we all know that is 100% not-factual as they just hit 1 million sub peak last year... or 51$ per player per year.

If you honestly think every single player is dishing out significantly more than a 4 dollar Mog station item every single month, then.... all the more power to you I suppose.

But even still...

With the Mog station, and everyone were purchasing 5$ a month that only puts XIV just over XI... which does not count for double the costs. That is if 100% of all players were spending at least 5$ per month. I would be surprised if even 50% of the playerbase was buying an average of 5$ per month.

So again.

I "personally" feel FFXI has been more financially successful than FFXIV.

[Daniolaut]

I feel, that 500,000 and 1 million are neither the active subscription numbers for FFXI or FFXIV.

That was not the point I was making. The overall point, is that FFXIV's "profitability" is different because of FFXIV version 1.0, which I really do hope everyone knows that FFXIV 1.0 was not a huge financial success.

If we cannot agree on those key points, and are simply saying "Mog station exist" then yes, it would be easy to say FFXIV could be seen as more profitable.

On topic.

I am very glad to see new update for FFXI, that to me would imply the team really cares about the game, if it doesnt mean anything else. Which is something I'm not so sure in regards to FFXIV. Both great games, and I play both off and on, but I really question how much the XIV team cares about the actual game Final Fantasy XIV. They might care about the playerbase, or the revenue, or try to make people happy, but caring about the game itself, I really am not certain.

[Dragoy]

Kudos to whoever wrote the dialogue/script and choreographed that mission.

It looks like the writer is Yaeko Sato. Her other work includes, but is not limited to, the Windurst and Chains of Promathia missions, as well as FFXIV 1.0.

There's an interview here (Japanese only), where she, Matsui, and Fujito talk about things: https://dengekionline.com/articles/45389/

[Alhanelem]

huge wall of text

Your entire post is still based on dubious assumptions and wishful thinking. Neither of which will change the fact that you don't actually have any real data because it isn't available. You accuse me of making assumptions but your entire argument is based solely on assumptions. None of the data collected by the external cites you're citing is either official or useful as a tool for determining active subs or any other useful player metric.

The irony is even after all that stuff you wrote, you still essentially admitted that FFXIV is making some amount more than $0 more money than FFXI, while continuing to "personally doubt" that it is.

That was not the point I was making. The overall point, is that FFXIV suffers "profitability" because of FFXIV version 1.0, which I really do hope everyone agrees was a financial disaster.

This is the most valid argument that exists, and while the faliure of the original version certainly did hurt SE and eats into the game's overall profitiability, the vast success of the game's relaunch which continues to this day as about the only MMO mentionable in the same breath as WoW is more than strong enough that even deducting the costs of the original version I still would maintain that FFXIV's overall profitability is still higher. And profitability aside, the game has vastly more subs than current FFXI does, so even if it isn't more profitable yet, though I still think it is, it will eventually overtake it.

None of this is really that important though. Both games still exist, have playerbases that love them, and both remain successful in their own rights. And both will continue to do so for some time to come.