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  1. #21
    Player Dragoniks's Avatar
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    Jun 2019
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    Character
    Asukoya
    World
    Sylph
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Sirmarki View Post
    Why is that bad? It's part of the game and it's background story line.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tharly View Post
    The requirements are all expansions installed and Rhapsodies completed. I don't think completing Rhapsodies is too high of an ask since if you haven't finished the story they released years ago why would you be jumping into new storyline anyways? New players have plenty of content to work through, but people who have been around for a long time will have already finished the old content and are the people who will benefit most from new storylines.
    It's bad only because i'm doing the stories and did not finished them yet. Near the end of Wog atm then i'll do adoulin and finish rhapsody. Stuck on rhapsody because i have to advance in adoulin first. Only bad for 'cause i don't yet finished all storie and cannot start the new one.

    I'm not playing everyday and 24/7 so it will take me some time before i can start it.
    (0)

  2. #22
    Player Sirmarki's Avatar
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    Dec 2013
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    1,185
    Character
    Sirmarki
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoniks View Post
    It's bad only because i'm doing the stories and did not finished them yet. Near the end of Wog atm then i'll do adoulin and finish rhapsody. Stuck on rhapsody because i have to advance in adoulin first. Only bad for 'cause i don't yet finished all storie and cannot start the new one.

    I'm not playing everyday and 24/7 so it will take me some time before i can start it.
    That is fine, because what is the rush when you currently have plenty of story that you haven't experienced yet(?)
    (3)

    Sirmarki, ex-Fenrir, a young warrior, in the heyday.

  3. #23
    Player radarbabyeater's Avatar
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    Aug 2015
    Location
    To the sun.
    Posts
    67
    Character
    Hrohj
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    RNG Lv 99
    The Brygid Cup is literally the funniest mission ever implemented in this game. Kudos to whoever wrote the dialogue/script and choreographed that mission.
    (1)

  4. #24
    Player
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    Nov 2012
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    17
    Quote Originally Posted by Beastorizer View Post
    agree, FFXI is a gem. It was proclaimed the most profitable FF title ever. Although XIV could have/may have caught it by now?
    I personally doubt FFXIV has caught up, or actually ever will catch up to FFXI so long as FFXI is still running.

    While XIV boasts of 20 million accounts, they struggle to keep 1 million recurring subscriptions. Which is why they rely so heavily on the mogstation (micro-transactions) for revenue.

    Less than 200,000 people do savage raids, and party finder is always 80% or more just savage party finders. Which further indicates very few people stay active or are subscribed at any given time. Most people come for the story, then unsubscribe immediately after.

    FFXI on the other hand has a very good retention rate. FFXIV? Not so much.
    (0)

  5. #25
    Player
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    Jul 2014
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    FFXIV has a very large cash shop with expensive items, I would guarantee it has.
    (1)

  6. #26
    Player Alhanelem's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Bastok
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    7,300
    Character
    Tahngarthor
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Daniolaut View Post
    I personally doubt FFXIV has caught up, or actually ever will catch up to FFXI so long as FFXI is still running.

    While XIV boasts of 20 million accounts, they struggle to keep 1 million recurring subscriptions. Which is why they rely so heavily on the mogstation (micro-transactions) for revenue.

    Less than 200,000 people do savage raids, and party finder is always 80% or more just savage party finders. Which further indicates very few people stay active or are subscribed at any given time. Most people come for the story, then unsubscribe immediately after.

    FFXI on the other hand has a very good retention rate. FFXIV? Not so much.
    Wishful thinking. FFXIV's been out for a long time now and has had many times more subs than FFXI. Plus mog station sales which are not insignificant (seriously just log in game and you will see lots of people with mog station items. They also make a ton of money from level/story skip potions and character recustomizations which some people buy on a regular basis)

    FFXIV could retain 10% of its customers and still outperform FFXI easily. Most of the "data" you're pulling out of your arse is false. You also seem to forget FFXI had half a million active players at its peak, from about the only time they ever discussed player numbers.

    And if you want to know why your numbers are BS, basically no MMO out today releases subscription numbers, There is no way to determine this either, nor is there to determine retention rate (And back in the day FFXI's retention rate wasn't any better- sure it's high today but today it's >99% veterans that have played for years and <1% new players). But FFXIV has dozens of servers all of which have more players on them than FFXI did in its heyday.

    I love and cherish FFXI as much as you do but I'm not about to pretend it is more successful.
    (0)
    Last edited by Alhanelem; 08-09-2020 at 02:46 AM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alhanelem View Post
    . Most of the "data" you're pulling out of your arse is false. .
    your numbers are BS.
    You're quite aggressive in your assumptions arent you?

    First off a number of things are being discussed here.

    Profit/Success
    Retention
    and
    Activity.

    (You also mentioned my credibility, and said my numbers were false, even though you responded in regards to profit, when the numbers were regards to retention. So you went off topic from what you were saying was not credible. Very convenient of you.)

    So lets restate the points.


    1. I was speaking in terms of profit.
    2. When speaking in terms of profit I used the words "personally" and "doubt." The first indicates opinion, the second indicates ... as per its definition "a feeling of uncertainty or lack of conviction."
    3. The numbers that are "BS" are 100% factual from actual sources.

    So if you completely ignore all numbers, and the history of both games, the costs to develop them, as well as their subscription prices, and just about everything number related, outside of the "20 million accounts" FFXIV has, and FFXI saying "half a million subscribers" as a possible peak, then sure, one could assume FFXIV Is more profitable. But that is completely illogical.

    FFXIV doesnt release subscription numbers no, but I never gave any numbers for subscriptions. What I said was “active players.” This is not a number for subscriptions and the number that I did provide for people activity playing is no more than 1 million which is pulled from data bases that pull from the lodestone.

    The other 2 numbers “20 million” and “200,000” one is directly stated by Square-Enix. The second is pulled from FFlogs as well as sites tracking mounts and minions.

    200,000 was also extremely generous, and was a “guess.” You seem rather insistent I’m wrong, so I’m going to provide actual factual numbers this time.

    Skyslipper
    FFXIV mount obtained from Edens Gate Savage. (Which is currently "old" content, as the current raid tier is Edens Verse Savage.)

    Players owning Skyslipper according to FFXIVCollect: 19% (no count provided.)

    Players owning Skyslipper according to the lodestone, pulled from Lalachievements: 20.1 % (69,322 chars)

    Model O.
    An even older savage raid mount from Omega Deltascape Savage. Model O.

    FFXIVCollect: 12%
    Lalachievements: 14.8 % (50,866 chars)

    These mounts are "difficult" but again, I was referring to the active playerbase. It takes more time to obtain these, so you generally need to be subscribed longer.
    Lets take a look at the people I said "personally doubt" stay subscribed, which are the people who do the story, then unsubscribe.

    Company Chocobo mount (easiest to obtain.)
    FFXIVCollect: 99%
    Lalachievements: 100 % (344,528 chars)

    Now lets check FFlogs for further comparison.
    So it turns out 200,000 was quite accurate based off people being active enough to even do savage.
    228,744
    People who are registered on FFlogs to clear O9S. (Omega Deltascape Savage V8.0.)
    https://www.fflogs.com/zone/rankings...s=42&page=2288

    I was basing the 200,000 off people I know about roughly who clear the final fight.

    So lets dig a little deeper, and see how many have cleared/are active enough to do story mode raids.

    Continuing to use last expansions data...

    Wind-up Exdeath. Obtained in Omega Deltscape Story mode.

    FFXIVCollect: 63%
    Lalachievements: 81.2 % (279385 chars)

    Pulling from FFlogs for Story mode clears is not really viable, as the number of players are lower than savage, which I know to be false. Because of course, you have to clear story to do savage.

    Obviously these numbers are not 100% correct, as you can see they vary from site to site, but all sites provide roughly the same numbers. If there were millions and millions of active players, these numbers absolutely would not be this low.

    If one were to use any kind of logic, based off these numbers, you have a number anywhere between 100,000 and... being overly generous now, 800,000 active subscribers.

    If we were to bump the number up to even 2 million to be absolutely absurd in our estimates, lets now factor in the point of my statement, that why I doubt FFXIV hasnt reached the revenue/success of FFXI quite yet.

    (See next comment response.)



    Note Lalachievements pull from 343,992 characters.
    Links to sites sorced.

    https://ffxivcollect.com/minions
    https://ffxivcollect.com/mounts
    https://lalachievements.com/en/rarity/minion/global/
    https://lalachievements.com/en/rarity/mount/global/

    Additional Sites possible Data:
    1.5 million subscriptions (this number probably is including the free trial players, I highly doubt this is subscribers.)
    https://mmo-population.com/r/ffxiv

    647,345
    https://ffxivcensus.com/

    (Steam specific)
    16,326.5
    https://steamcharts.com/app/39210

    1 million
    https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comm...illion_active/
    (This number probably is the highest number the game reached at a given time, not something that is ongoing, but the number they peaked at while tracking/watching.)


    Quote Originally Posted by Pixela View Post
    FFXIV has a very large cash shop with expensive items, I would guarantee it has.
    Yes, some players do use the mogstation.

    But you have to consider that most all mogstation items are previous seasonal items, so while you do see a large amount of the active playerbase (as provided above is anywhere between 100,000-800,000 maximum) not all of these players have utilized the mogstation to obtain said items, because they were obtainable for free in-game.

    Now, why do I think this is not going to push FFXIV over FFXI considering how long both have been running?

    Well a major key factor into FFXIV's revenue/profit/success is going to come from also FFXIV 1.0 which we all know, based on numbers alone for revenue, FFXIV 1.0 is only going to drastically, and I mean drastically lower FFXIV's financial success.

    FFXIV 1.0 was not only revamped between 1.0 and 1.23b, which was costly revenue/spending/budget. But 1.0 was running and having content developed for it, while FFXIV 2.0 was being developed, which is further revenue/budget and spending.


    So if you take according to the estimate of 500,000 cap for FFXI, and the cap for FFXIV so far, 1 million.

    Then you factor in the revenue of mogstation...

    Then finally factor in that FFXIV 1.0 likely cost significantly more money to develop than FFXI, then you factor in the cost of developing 2.0, while also running FFXIV 1.0....

    Again, key word personally, I personally do not see FFXIV having been more financially successful than FFXI.

    So if it is true that FFXI did reach 500,000 subs (which I am not quoting) and FFXIV only just reached 1 million for its peak subscribers, but suffers the lost revenue from version 1.0 and double development time, I really dont feel Mogstation is going to make up for all of that.

    Again that is personal opinion, no one has Mogstation sales, and we dont have revenue gains vs development costs.

    But I would like to think its common knowledge and common sense, that newer games are more costly to develop than older games, and FFXI currently costs 12.95$ per month, while FFXIV is either 9.99$ (legacy) 12.99$ (Entry account) or 14.99$ (Standard account) With the options for both Legacy and Standard accounts to be reduced 12.99$ per month for Standard, and 7.99$ for Legacy respectively, while purchasing 6 months at a time.

    I really dont think XIV can take XI considering all the above.

    So lets make some numbers.

    FFXI
    +$ 12.95$/ Month
    +$ 500,000 peak subscribers
    x18 years

    -$ 1 time development cost
    -$ 1 time publishing cost
    -$ 1 time advertising cost

    FFXIV
    +$ 7.99$/ Month (Legacy at 6 months discount)
    +$9.99$/ Month (Legacy)
    +$12.99/ Month (Entry( and (Standard-6mDsc)
    +$ 14.99/ Month (Standard)
    +$ Micro Transactions
    +$ 1,000,000 peak subscribers
    x7 years

    (We cant count FFXIV 1.0 as a positive in revenue right?I do hope we can agree there.... if not, this is a waste of time.)

    -$ 1 time development cost
    -$ 1 time development cost
    -$ 1 time publishing cost
    -$ 1 time publishing cost
    -$ 1 time advertising cost
    -$ 1 time advertising cost

    The reason I have Legacy and the other subscription types crossed out, is because I would think its rather logical that the amount of players using a standard account, and not paying 6 months at a time, is probably going to equal the amount of legacy players. Making the varying costs an even 12.99$ across the board.

    With the above lets take a closer look

    Using extremely simple math, based off the numbers we know to be "true."

    FFXI:
    12.95 * 12 (months in a year) * 18 years.=
    2,797.20$

    FFXIV
    12.99 * 12 * 7 =
    I'm not going to include 1.0, it is common knowledge it was not profitable.
    1,091.16

    2,797.2 > 1,091

    FFXI wins.

    Lets take this further....

    FFXI
    2797 * 500,000 = 1 398 500 000


    FFXIV
    1091 * 1 million = 1 091 000 000


    1,398,500,000 > 1,091,000,000

    On October 27, 2014 Square Enix implemented a cash shop to the Mog Station.
    https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki...Mog%20Station.

    This means FFXIV needs to make 307.5 million from the Mog Station since 2014, which was roughly (less than) 6 years. That equates to 51.25 million a year.

    If we take the maximum subscription for FFXIV at 1 million, and span that for the last 6 years (yeah right, we all know that is 100% false as they just hit 1 million sub peak last year... or 51$ per player per year.

    If you honestly think every single player is dishing out significantly more than a 4 dollar Mog station item every single month, then.... all the more power to you I suppose.

    But even still...

    With the Mog station, and everyone coughing up 5$ a month that only puts XIV just over XI... which does not count for double the costs.

    So again.

    I "personally doubt" FFXIV has been more financially successful than FFXI.
    (0)

  8. #28
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    I really hope its common sense, that 500,000 and 1 million are neither the active subscription numbers for FFXI and FFXIV.

    That was not the point I was making. The overall point, is that FFXIV suffers "profitability" because of FFXIV version 1.0, which I really do hope everyone agrees was a financial disaster.

    If we cannot agree on those key points, and are simply saying "Mog station exist" then yes, it would be easy to say FFXIV could be seen as more profitable.

    On topic.

    I am very glad to see new update for FFXI, that to me would imply the team really cares about the game, if it doesnt mean anything else. Which is something I'm not so sure in regards to FFXIV. Both great games, and I play both off and on, but I really question how much the XIV team cares about the actual game Final Fantasy XIV. They might care about the playerbase, or the revenue, or try to make people happy, but caring about the game itself, I really am not certain.
    (0)

  9. #29
    Player Dragoy's Avatar
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    Dragoy
    World
    Fenrir
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    BRD Lv 66

    €°(((><

    Quote Originally Posted by radarbabyeater View Post
    Kudos to whoever wrote the dialogue/script and choreographed that mission.
    It looks like the writer is Yaeko Sato. Her other work includes, but is not limited to, the Windurst and Chains of Promathia missions, as well as FFXIV 1.0.

    There's an interview here (Japanese only), where she, Matsui, and Fujito talk about things: https://dengekionline.com/articles/45389/
    (0)
    Last edited by Dragoy; 08-11-2020 at 09:08 AM.
    Kind Regards,
    ~ The Noob Unlimited ~



    Sore wa sore, kore wa kore.

  10. #30
    Player Alhanelem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniolaut View Post
    huge wall of text
    Your entire post is still based on dubious assumptions and wishful thinking. Neither of which will change the fact that you don't actually have any real data because it isn't available. You accuse me of making assumptions but your entire argument is based solely on assumptions. None of the data collected by the external cites you're citing is either official or useful as a tool for determining active subs or any other useful player metric.

    The irony is even after all that stuff you wrote, you still essentially admitted that FFXIV is making some amount more than $0 more money than FFXI, while continuing to "personally doubt" that it is.


    That was not the point I was making. The overall point, is that FFXIV suffers "profitability" because of FFXIV version 1.0, which I really do hope everyone agrees was a financial disaster.
    This is the most valid argument that exists, and while the faliure of the original version certainly did hurt SE and eats into the game's overall profitiability, the vast success of the game's relaunch which continues to this day as about the only MMO mentionable in the same breath as WoW is more than strong enough that even deducting the costs of the original version I still would maintain that FFXIV's overall profitability is still higher. And profitability aside, the game has vastly more subs than current FFXI does, so even if it isn't more profitable yet, though I still think it is, it will eventually overtake it.

    None of this is really that important though. Both games still exist, have playerbases that love them, and both remain successful in their own rights. And both will continue to do so for some time to come.
    (0)
    Last edited by Alhanelem; 08-11-2020 at 12:27 PM.

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