June 2020 FINAL FANTASY XI Digest

[TooTallTaru]

Worse. Update. Ever.

For now...
Calling it a update is generous.

[Alhanelem]

I agree the limit is too low. Not crazy low, but as it is, even if you don't specially farm for certain RoE objectives, you're going to hit that limit just doing things you normally do in a week. It needs to be higher. I think this change was good intentioned, but it is causing problems because you didn't plan for this a lot sooner. It's really crappy to keep a status quo for years and then suddenly change it on people.

You mentioned you were considering removing certain ROE objectives. Instead of doing that, why not limit the number of times you can repeat them? Then the fastest gil generation method is reduced while players are still able to gain sparks etc. at the regular rate at other times.

See the problem is all that gil is already in circulation, and you can't just remove it. So the people who already have mules full of gil, they're already set, while the players who were just getting by are hurt by this.

The problem is more that there aren't many big gil sinks in the game anymore. Teleporting doesn't cost that much (heck, i remember paying white mages more to teleport to fewer places....) and dynamis doesn't have an ongoing cost, and neither does any of the other major content in the game.


---
Let me tell you a short story.


I was involved in the post-release community-based development of a game called Dungeon Defenders. (We basically had free range to make many changes to the game although they had to be approved by the community and verified by the original devs to not make the game explode). This was a third-person action game with tower defense elements. Among the gear available to players were pets, which there were a variety of and had unique effects. One of these was a "genie," and his special ability was to give you mana when you dealt damage. This mana is primarily used to buiild and upgrade towers. There was a bug with the genie, which went unfixed by the developers for a long time, which caused its ability to potentially activate multiple times per attack, generating a lot of mana and allowing players to complete their defense builds much faster than normal, somewhat trivializing certain aspects of the game at high levels.

When the development was handed over to the community, we discovered this bug, and we attempted to fix it- but the bug had been in the game for years unbeknownst to the players, and they rebelled when the fix was proposed. Bound by the community wishes, we were forced to leave the bug in. This is because the playerbase was used to it for so long that the bug essentially became a feature.

That is basically what has happened here in FFXI. The current popular way to make money has been around for a very long time and had some obvious flaws in it, but they went unaddressed for a long time. As a result, the playerbase became used to it. Now, years later, you decide you need to fix this.



Hopefully my story helps illustrate why people have a problem with this.

[Lockhart]

Maybe I am doing it wrong but it usually takes me around 3-4 hours to cap sparks (other then gain exp objective). 3-4 hours for 1m gil is super ineffective for me. During gain EXP in a group i finish 99.9k sparks and accolades every 20-30 minutes. During that one event I could make up to 6m/hr which is worth it. I do not think average players are willing to spend 3-4 hours to cap objectives during not these times.

The real problem was the bot's capping sparks and accolades every 3-4 hours (6-8 times a day), If you toss in gain EXP, I'd say they cap both in an hour or slightly less during ALL 3 events, which puts the bots up to 65 times per week. Assuming the BST running at flee speeds in cirdas caverns were the same RMT, there was 23 of them online at one time. Thats around 1,495 times a week for just the one in Cirdas, the other zones are packed too. Accolades usually cap in the same-ish time therefore ~3k exchanges of 1m gil.

That RMT is making 3 billion gil a week on these sparks and selling it to people that we are competing against for spots in linkshells, ambuscade spots, omen spots. Its hard to be upset at SE for placing this limit for me. I think there is a better way though.

I think the only things that should be included in this limit are equipment 1-99. The current limit should allow you to buy gear and equipment up to 99 for around 2-3 jobs a week, and then sell it for a profit of (1 million gil roughly). However, I dont think anything in items, skill increasing tomes, or trust should count against your limit. Sure, you can sell the tomes or memories on the auction house, but the market for these is not usually very high. The tomes you can sell to NPCs but at a 0.5:1 ratio instead of 10:1 (meaning they are 200 sparks and npc for ~105gil). I dont think RMT would find this profitable or worthwhile, and its definitely not 1.5 billion gil a week guaranteed.

As far as accolades: The only one that makes guaranteed gil is prize powder. Two options: its the only one you made NPC-able (I'm not sure why) so ether make it worth 10 gil (1-1 ratio) or make it non-npc sellable like the other items. Place no limit on anything else. Sure, RMT could purchase a bunch of "special material" which is not NPC able, and sell it on the auction house, but it will not sell that quickly which makes me think RMT will also find this not worthwhile, giving us the ability to exchange for them if we cannot find a group to do the content. Also, these items are useful to new players so if they do FLOOD the market with these items, I'm sure they will be incredibly cheap and useful to everyone doing Oddessy or upgrading equipment (IE new players).

Thoughts?

I could be way off base with my assessments. Even though this strategy by SE to combat this seems like a good idea to me, I would love to discussing things that could make this better for everyone.

EDIT: upon investigation, my suggestion for sparks is already what they did.
EDIT to EDIT: nevermind, it just doesnt show up on the main page. They do count against your 100k limit.

[isiolia]

We don’t think this is a perfect solution and will consider adjustments if necessary, so we’d like to hear your opinions on this countermeasure.

I think establishing a limit like this was far, far overdue. Even outside of RMT activity, it just introduced too much gil relative to gil sinks. Similar methods had been addressed in much less time in the past.
Good on the dev team for going ahead with what you likely knew would be a very unpopular decision.


That said, I do think there are some potential improvements to make.

As Lucor has already mentioned, a core problem with Sparks (in particular) is that the selection of items on offer is heavily geared around newer or returning players. Which is great! Cost of basic armor and weapons is basically a nonissue, and NPC'ing items (even with the cap) would provide sufficient income to buy food/consumables from the Curio Moogle, spell scrolls, and so on.
For players at 99 and above, however, appealing things to spend Sparks on drop to near nothing. About the only things there once someone has capped skills are REM tales and Etched memories, which cost too many Sparks to be appealing at this stage of the game. It makes the logical use NPC'ing items for gil, which has been an enduring design issue.

What I would suggest, similar to what Lucor said, is to expand on what players can purchase. Maybe use RoV progress to open up more categories to purchase from, and individual achievements to unlock specific items. Even aside from things like Omen scales/etc (which would be nice), put any crafted items needed for AF quests, Relics, reforges, Oboro weapons, etc in there. AH supply can be sporadic on small servers.
Having another source for REM currencies, Dyna D materials, and so on could be fine too. Again, only available to characters that have actually progressed to the content.

The general point being, try to make NPC'ing things for gil be a less appealing option, and you'll reduce gil creation even further. Unity materials already do something similar, Mog Garden as well.

I do think that non-sellables (like chapters) should be exempt from a cap.

Accolades, I'd say that the Special Materials cost should be lowered, or exempt. The NPC price doesn't make them worth selling like that, and the market for them is only so large.


It would, generally, be great to see Sparks be rethought into something better rather than simply nerfed.

[Zuidar]

Upgrading Unity equipment using Accolades should not really be subjected to the cap, and same for SP keys

[Pwnsalot]

I'd have to argue that Sparks play only a small role in RMT money generation. RMTs can farm 100s of millions of gil per day. Billions in some cases, especially when in-game exploits are leaked. Sparks generation, even if you're controlling 6 characters, is only a million gil per character once redeemed for Acheron Shields and I think this is balanced. It's a win-win, too, because more characters = more sparks = more gil but also more characters = more money for Square Enix = more content published by Square Enix = very happy playerbase.
On that note, I'd have to admit that the limit posed on Sparks generation does indeed seem fair and balanced and will likely not affect 99% of the playerbase. In fact, I'm often sitting at capped sparks and making gil doing other things instead of selling Acheron Shields because inventory crisis is a real thing.
Speaking of inventory crisis, I'd pay handsomely for a Wardrobe 5 and 6
A N Y W A Y
You should also note that you do Gain Exp 3 times per week, and Gain Exp is basically capped sparks in 30 mins. So this limit imposed on Sparks generation is going to weaken the strain on the server during Gain Exp, because everyone won't spam it for 4 hours straight.
But remember, it's 3 times per week.
So even if we log in for 1 Gain Exp, and all we do that day is farm for 30 minutes to sell sparks, well, if we're online during the next Gain Exp that week, we just simply can't benefit from it anymore. And that's actually kinda lame. But, since the 3 Gain Exps are spaced out in 3 different time zones, it's unlikely that the average player will be playing during multiple Gain Exps, unless they're actually signing in just to farm Sparks, and believe me, I've been there. That's not a bad way to earn gil. Especially if you have multiple characters.
It does kinda seem like you're immune to this 100k sparks cap if you have enough characters to play. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

[Lockhart]

I'd have to argue that Sparks play only a small role in RMT money generation. RMTs can farm 100s of millions of gil per day. Billions in some cases, especially when in-game exploits are leaked. Sparks generation, even if you're controlling 6 characters, is only a million gil per character once redeemed for Acheron Shields and I think this is balanced. It's a win-win, too, because more characters = more sparks = more gil but also more characters = more money for Square Enix = more content published by Square Enix = very happy playerbase.
On that note, I'd have to admit that the limit posed on Sparks generation does indeed seem fair and balanced and will likely not affect 99% of the playerbase. In fact, I'm often sitting at capped sparks and making gil doing other things instead of selling Acheron Shields because inventory crisis is a real thing.
Speaking of inventory crisis, I'd pay handsomely for a Wardrobe 5 and 6
A N Y W A Y
You should also note that you do Gain Exp 3 times per week, and Gain Exp is basically capped sparks in 30 mins. So this limit imposed on Sparks generation is going to weaken the strain on the server during Gain Exp, because everyone won't spam it for 4 hours straight.
But remember, it's 3 times per week.
So even if we log in for 1 Gain Exp, and all we do that day is farm for 30 minutes to sell sparks, well, if we're online during the next Gain Exp that week, we just simply can't benefit from it anymore. And that's actually kinda lame. But, since the 3 Gain Exps are spaced out in 3 different time zones, it's unlikely that the average player will be playing during multiple Gain Exps, unless they're actually signing in just to farm Sparks, and believe me, I've been there. That's not a bad way to earn gil. Especially if you have multiple characters.
It does kinda seem like you're immune to this 100k sparks cap if you have enough characters to play. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

Greeting Pwnsalot, I have seen you around the server and your youtube videos have helped me progress in the game. For that I want to extend my gratitude, thank you.
I wanted to request you expand on the statement you made "I'd have to argue that Sparks play only a small role in RMT money generation. RMTs can farm 100s of millions of gil per day. Billions in some cases, especially when in-game exploits are leaked."
While I understand about the in-game exploits, which were addressed, how are they making millions or billions without sparks/accolades now? The goal here is to stop RMT, or at least slow them down as much as possible. If your aware of another issue that should be address please bring it to the attention of the forum.

[Ilisidi]

Thank you for the update and the anniversary event.

I enjoy playing against my Mog Garden buddies very much. (Okay, not against Kuyin.)

[Romikemi]

Fourteen years I've been dealing with this infection and today prompts me to comment.

You know, if the STF was actually a thing, with eyes, and maybe a dozen lua scripts, you wouldn't need to do anything that affects the normal user base.

Normal (n): conforming to a norm, demonstrating a common pattern.

Seriously people, you write code for a living and you can't find the accounts that are showing questionable behavior? Heuristics have been a part of internet security for over a decade now. Just look at that notification on your phone "Hey Bob, did you really just buy three boats?"

No, instead you look at how many Acherons sell in an hour and your reaction is to prevent all people who express a wide range of behavior from benefitting from an ethical exercise of an action that best matches their skill in the game just because it seems to correlate to RMT.

Meanwhile, have you ever stood around in Dho Gates and maybe struck up a conversation or two, you know, just to see if anyone is awake? Certainly the clients are all AFK. Did you think people with capped gil need to work 12 hour days? I've filtered so many shouts that I come to ffxiah just to see how ridiculous it is without filters.

Yet, this, this, is an anti-RMT move? Do you seriously think this is the most productive way for RMTs to earn? Really? I mean, honestly, I don't know what you people think after turning A Realm Reborn into Dance Dance Revolution.

[Typral]

Why would they want to ban the RMT? That would be a huge net loss for them in sub costs. We are at the point they don't want to hurt the cash flow from this game or it could make them decide it isn't worth it anymore. The best thing they came up with was to slow RMT down and make them purchase more content IDs = more revenue. I think they stopped caring about the average user a long time ago because they figure they will stick around no matter what.