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  1. #1
    Player Hyrist's Avatar
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    May 2011
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    Windurst
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    396
    Character
    Hyrist
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99

    A Difficult but Achievable way to end RMT without severely hurting players.

    Everyone here is debating the issue on combating RMT and stabilizing the markets, be it for or against reducing the gil made by sparks, people seems to think there is some simple solution

    The solution is actually more complex, but easily achievable. But put succinctly - we have to collar the markets. THat is literally the only way to control RMT in a game like this. Let me explain:

    The problem here is that the Bots have more than enough accounts to take advantage of the lower cap by sheer numbers of accounts. You might lower the top end rate of gil made via Sparks by some minor amount, but that does not prevent them from using alternative means through advantage of numbers to control markets.

    Say you employ a system that limits you to capping out your sparks once a week, and exchanging that amount. What prevents them from then cycling out characters or accounts from making those sparks and preserving their workflow?

    Meanwhile, we also have a player issue - the people who purchase and play multiple accounts to play - while a pillar of support for the life of the game, are also inadvertantly hurting it by crashing or inflating certain prices in ranges and acessbilities they were not designed to be - preventing those items from being adjusted appropriately. However, neither of these would be a major issue if there wasn't so much gil to throw around that a Million seems like nothing.


    The issue here isn't that there's too much gil being added into circulation, it's that there's not enough going out. Prices for rare crafted items and materials are in the multiple millions, and the costs for making SU5s and other in-demand items are in the tens to hundreds of millions. That's not a reasonable rate for most casual players in the game, (not without a huge source RMT will take advantage of) and those are the ones returning that you're aiming to preserve. - but all that gil is just going into the banks of Gilsellers or other players who have more than they'll ever need. This makes gil less valuable and more inflated.

    So rather than just making gil less accessible, give gil some sort of high-end-game value to be spent at NPC - something similar in usage to say a potpourri, that permits purchases from NPC many high value items on the auction house. Then give a stable, but limited, method of making gil independent of the open market. (Sparks can remain this method if it is capped like SE intends.)

    Meanwhile, at the same time, turning in similar items of high value may also grant this currency but at a slightly lesservalue than trading in raw gil equivalent to the purchase of that item, so that high value items can be traded for - in case the market is over-flooded with said items. This guarantees a minimum value of the items - giving a stable range of variance that allows players to determine what an item is worth between a set minimum and maximum.

    This effectively hard stabilizes market, preventing willful inflation or deflation of certain items of the game. Both gilsellers and players who exploit the system will be prevented from cornering or the markets, and the developers will be able to properly gauge and adjust the value of items in the game to keep them both desirable and balanced for the whole base.

    This also insures Gil and items will both have a stable value in the game with enough leeway between to allow for a range of choice. Both the buyer and the seller benefits from an exchange somewhere in the middle price range and it's the playerbase that decies where within that middle ground the true value of the item lies - preserving at least a part of the idea of the free market.

    Gilsellers will have no grounds to stand on because they can't inflate the prices of items past the maximum point. And legit players will still have reason to farm for the items because they will get access to at least the minimum value, which is (if done correctly) a lot higher than the way for earning raw gil. The game would remain healthy, players retain a sense of choice (if limited) and RMT gets murdered in cold coin.

    Hey... I guess we can call the currency you exchange valuables and gil for "Cold Coins", if SE wants the idea.

    Anyways, this is one professional System's Analyst's idea on how to resolve the RMT issue. Whehter or not it gets liked, or utilized, I'll leave in your hands. Either way, a part of me stubbornly loves the game and I'll continue to try to survive in it.

    Have a good one!
    (3)

  2. #2
    Player Divaud's Avatar
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    May 2014
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    31
    Character
    Divaud
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    GEO Lv 99
    Can you clarify something?

    Would these high priced items from NPC's be rare/ex? Crafting components?

    What's going to prevent this benefitting players who bot gil, since they'll be able to simply purchase these items at will essentially?

    This idea would certainly hit RMT, but feels like people running bots will have an easier time getting high value items.
    (1)

  3. #3
    Player Dragoy's Avatar
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    Jul 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    1,567
    Character
    Dragoy
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 66
    I've been thinking the same for a good time, that the game indeed could probably use more money-sinks, ones that do not just circulate it around, but actually take it out.

    There might be some examples in-game already, sort of, items such as those used for upgrading artifact armour (the 'Niobium Ore' to mention one). I don't think these are available from any other sources than NPCs at this time, and when used, are indeed used up for good.

    Of course, they're also used for crafting which probably ends up making them circulate gil around as well, but at least they're not "printing" more of it to the extent the Sparks of Eminence and Unity Accolades do.
    (0)
    Kind Regards,
    ~ The Noob Unlimited ~



    Sore wa sore, kore wa kore.

  4. #4
    Player Hyrist's Avatar
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    May 2011
    Location
    Windurst
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    396
    Character
    Hyrist
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Divaud View Post
    Can you clarify something?

    Would these high priced items from NPC's be rare/ex? Crafting components?

    What's going to prevent this benefitting players who bot gil, since they'll be able to simply purchase these items at will essentially?

    This idea would certainly hit RMT, but feels like people running bots will have an easier time getting high value items.
    Good catch, however: the sad truth is, they're already doing this. And this sort of thing would have to be addressed manually.

    This proposal does not aim to remove botting from the game directly - instead it aims to remove them from the market. (And track them if they’re being obvious about it.)

    Let's be clear on the intention here - anyone who purchases the items with "Cold Coins" would never be able to profit from the exchange, as there would be a direct "CC to Gil" ratio maintained that can keep the item from becoming profitable on the AH via purchase. It would only be profitable by completing the content and getting the drop from there, then selling that drop on the AH to another player. But they’d never be able to do more than floor the market on that item to its minimum trade-in value, which would then cease to be worthwhile to them to sell rather than trade in. And SE would also be able to identify the item directly and adjust its minimum value, as well as keep an eye on that content for botting/exploitation.

    If someone farms the gil, legit or otherwise, then purchases the Cold Coins to acquire these rare items, that Gil gets removed from circulation. If they try to then sell the item on AH, they'd then be selling it for a guaranteed loss. Someone who uses bots to farm gil, would effectively be removing themselves from the economy entirely.

    And hopefully, as this is a new NPC, SE can then track those who are contributing an abnormal amount of value into Cold Coins as well as what item is causing that influx of CC items. They then can investigate it. With RMT out of play due to it no longer being profitable, they'd also have more manpower to do so.

    The difficulty comes on SE's end - they have to determine what items are effectively bottle-necking the market to put into the Cold Coin market and then what that item should sell for a gil range.. (compared to their intended gil generation methods and caps) This could be any item that could have an impact on the Auction House. It would require analysis, and a decision for each item - but implementing it into the game equates to remembering what line of code they put it up for, (which will be easy as they're adding the NPC from scratch) and updating lines on a Spreadsheet to keep track of their ratios.

    There would of course naturally be adjustments - you can't nail the market on the first try. But this would give them the tools to do so directly and easily once the system is in place.
    (2)

  5. #5
    Player VoiceMemo's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    599
    Character
    Voicememo
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 99
    How about SE form a police force that is comprised of active/long time players. Said players would have to apply like any job, take a test, have interview and provide character references to be hired. Then said group of players would police the server themselves.

    If need be then these players would be sent to STF(AKA the Jury and executioner)
    (0)
    Last edited by VoiceMemo; 06-05-2020 at 01:46 PM.

  6. #6
    Player Hyrist's Avatar
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    May 2011
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    Windurst
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    396
    Character
    Hyrist
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by VoiceMemo View Post
    How about SE form a police force that is comprised of active/long time players. Said players would have to apply like any job, take a test, have interview and provide character references to be hired. Then said group of players would police the server themselves.

    If need be then these players would be sent to STF(AKA the Jury and executioner)
    Speaking as someone in IT, that's not something that will likely pass through any leadership group. Counterarguments that will be cited and likely accepted would consist of conflicts of interest, reliability of people in position (how often are they doing their job vs how often are they playing the game, etc) - complications with labor laws verses an already established GM position, and so on.

    Such a policy is useful in smaller communities, I grant you. But SE's in the precarious position of being a larger corporation. Having non-paid moderators within a subscription client isn't something they likely can get away with being seen doing.

    Good idea, thinking that people closest to both the ground level, and having a vested interest in the long term health and well being of the game, would have the best insight of potential cheating. But there are likely too many strings there for anyone on what we call the '3000 ft level' to let that proposal fly.

    Now, them opening up another paid GM position or few specifically for FFXI, given its resurgence might actually be a worthwhile investment. But there's no way they, or even really a non-paid force would be able to do more than a courtesy cleanup of a systematic problem. You'd just be constantly reporting people only for them to be replaced - similar to my early days where I reported mine-botters constantly to the STF.

    My proposal was hoping to address the problem at its systematic source. To Visualize: If predators are eating your sheep at night, you can try to stay up to guard the sheep, but it might just be smarter to build a barn house for them.
    (2)

  7. #7
    Player VoiceMemo's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    599
    Character
    Voicememo
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 99
    Well if it needs to be paid, maybe those that perform this task get free subscription for their tenure as part of the police force.

    But IMO the root of the issue is that players need to just NOT buy gil. Years ago buying gil was ostracized, but now it seems like it's ok. I hear so many say that they need to buy gil because they don't have the time to invest in the game. It is their money yes and they can spend it how they wish, but the excuse of "it's just a game" is too easy, as it affects other REAL people.

    More should do their part and HORDE gil, take it out of circulation or buy majority from NPC only(destroying gil). These are the 2 ways an individual can help the situation.

    Or I guess another solution is for SE to sell gil DIRECTLY and undercut them all to drive them out of business, but I think that would open up a larger can of worms with super rampant inflation.

    As for your idea about a high priced item from NPC only, I can't think of any item that would be beneficial to all jobs that would make it desirable to everyone. IE a brew that would be usable anywhere in the game would be wanted by everyone BUT it would also basically destroy the game.
    (0)
    Last edited by VoiceMemo; 06-05-2020 at 06:36 PM.

  8. #8
    Player Sirmarki's Avatar
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    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,105
    Character
    Sirmarki
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    I still maintain that the two biggest issues that will end up hurting, well everything, are Job Point sellers and Mercs.

    Even ex-Mercs are coming out now and saying that it is just over the top and out of control, one mentioned being logged in all day for 12 hours, and the whole screen was mercs. Of course, I'm talking about Asura, but let's face it, most actions taken now are revolved around what happens on Asura, being the most populated and dominating server.

    I went afk the other day and came back, I thought I would calculate the Merc yells to actual people doing content yells and content yells equated for 5%.

    The linkshells are full with 30-50 people most times, and yet they are quiet.

    It has become normal to get to master and buy most/all gear removing the ability for people to get together and do content, because they don't have to, they can just buy it.
    (0)

    Sirmarki, ex-Fenrir, a young warrior, in the heyday.

  9. #9
    Player Lockhart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Posts
    37
    Character
    Lockhartt
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 99
    I do not think 1 mil gil from capping sparks once per week would be worth it to RMT. Each additional character is $1 a month, with the main account being $13, so even capped out thats $29~30 a month. They would make 64mil in a 4 week month capping each characters sparks once a week. If you assume they are just doing sparks they would need to charge more then $2 a million to break even, if just sparks.
    (0)

  10. #10
    Player Hyrist's Avatar
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    May 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    396
    Character
    Hyrist
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by VoiceMemo View Post
    But IMO the root of the issue is that players need to just NOT buy gil.

    More should do their part and HORDE gil, take it out of circulation or buy majority from NPC only(destroying gil). These are the 2 ways an individual can help the situation.
    Thirteen years of this across every conceivable game with a multiplayer market has broken me of any faith whatsoever in a crowd solution. People are simply too varied, their moral spectrum too differing - and wherever there is a demand, there will be someone to make a market out of it. Therefore the core problem is to address the market. This goes doubly so for hoarding gil - unless the player has absolutely nothing to buy, all it does is raise prices - because too few players will hoard gear and not impulse buy with it.

    And you don't need to target all job specific items on the AH, what you target is items most vulnerable to being cornered and over/under sold.

    As a mental exercise, we can begin with the 20 largest single purchase value crafted goods, and their materials. Evaluate what their min and maximum cost values 'should' be for the in game effort involve, completely excluding the free market of the AH.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirmarki View Post
    I still maintain that the two biggest issues that will end up hurting, well everything, are Job Point sellers and Mercs….
    And in a late stage game you won't remove the Mercing economy. It's something players do as well as gilsellers. They have the ability to sell items they themselves can acquire with ease, therefore they'll offer it as a solution to players who otherwise can't access the content.

    And, honestly, there's value in that system. A player who's trying to catch up is given an avenue to do so - and most revert back to playing content themselves in everything they can achieve themselves - the list growing with each purchase and accomplishments. This is all done without the level of expectation or attachment long term content groups force upon one another - a social element those who were successful in view with rose tinted glasses, but the majority have always despised. This is why things like Roulettes are so heavily successful in modern MMOs.


    I myself Merced a Colada on RDM to get a jump start on weapon damage (Before Kaja was a thing.) I haven't merced any other items since - but that weapon gave me a jump start I needed to start working on my own upgrades.

    To think of this more fairly, selling something on the Auction House is simply selling the service of acquiring that item after the fact - it’s Pre-Merced merchandise. Mercing is just enabling people to do it from content that cannot otherwise be sold.

    The extreme level of mercing will die down once the inflation of gil begins to settle - once the value of gil returns, it won’t be as absurdly lucrative to Merc vs other grinding methods - therefore fewer people will do it.

    From my assessment (take it with a grain of salt, I’m not perfect) - The core of it all boils down to just how inflated the whole market has become, and how lopsided it’s made the in game economy. If the top end of the current market becomes leashed, the system will begin to balance out and low end players will feel like advancements are more achievable, while high end players will feel like they don’t need to exploit the system just to stay with the pack.

    ________________________________________________________________________________

    Rather than debate back and forth on the same singular point. I’d like to suggest something for those following along post by post -

    What are the items on the AH you feel are most influential and are often being warped by Gilsellers and Botters alike? What minimum and maximum value would you like that item to be set to and why?

    We can apply the same questions to items that are commonly being Merced as well. While I primarily wanted to focus on getting the Auction house stabilized, mercing is something we can add to the concerns, and could be controlled by the same system.
    (2)

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