New server that is actually policed, 1 time transfer

[Alhanelem]

They are in a linkshell, and they are very popular on Youtube.

I'm sorry, but FFXI and "popular on youtube" just don't go in the same sentence.

[Divaud]

I'm sorry but this is just stupid. All servers should be "policed." not just one. Everyone has or should have the same expectation of the least amount of RMT etc. that could realistically be acheived.

But basically, transfer off asura and your problems will be greatly diminished (unless everyone takes this advice and some other server becomes the overcrowded one)

I wont sit here and claim it's a perfect solution. Ideally we should all expect and receive proper enforcement so our play isn't compromised, but we have to be realistic and pragmatic.

This problem may be more prevalent on Asura, but it is an issue everywhere, and the only practical solution as I see it is to create a chokepoint. Will it stop 100%? No, but it'll be much better than the situation we have now. As you said:

The fact that cheaters are so unconcerned that they'll openly admit that they're doing it and even make fun of it says SE needs to step up their game.

Which is exactly why I proposed this idea. If we can create an environment where actual policing takes place and the people there are less inclined to do it (since they've opted in and invested in it) then its at least worth a try.

I'm not trying to make this out to be a gamebreaking issue, I play regardless and don't give it much thought because I still enjoy the game.

But there are definitely times where I run across these things and it puts a bad taste in my mouth.

[TullemoreAsuraFFXI]

The user that can't examine conduct inside of ffxi ethically beyond a clinical sociopath will refuse to believe the relations between consequence and conduct.

[Alhanelem]

Which is exactly why I proposed this idea. If we can create an environment where actual policing takes place and the people there are less inclined to do it (since they've opted in and invested in it) then its at least worth a try.

my point is enforcing the rules that ALREADY EXIST shouldn't take place in a special environment. It should take place across the game.

I'm figuring your logic is "well if they are only strict on cheaters on one server, then they can't complain about it taking too much money away" or something like that. But that's BS. SE needs to demonstrate their integrity and put obvious instances of cheating above profit.

(Now, if they had a way to and banned everyone for using tools which aren't intended to harm other players like winCOUGH GASP HACK COUGH, they'd have to ban like half of everybody- i'm talking about people who are harming others for their own gain, like poshacking between monsters or gathering points, duping items, etc, which SE should honestly be able to detect without computer scanning)

[TullemoreAsuraFFXI]

@Alhenelem Correct, which is why the proposal from my link would not remove ToS authority on any given server.
It would, however, forcibly move accounts from a traditionalist designated server found to be in violation of ToS to a declared anarchy server and lock them there with their own identified class of players.
This would be a deterrent against cheating of any sorts on the traditionalist server and also a excellent motivation for players who desire the most unblemished experience to subscribe to the traditionalist server.

[Jerbob]

using tools which aren't intended to harm other players

I know it's not a popular opinion here (or anywhere), but the widely-held belief that certain community-sanctioned tools are not harmful just isn't true. The entire point of them is to make the game easier, even if that's just by streamlining inconveniences. If the majority are using them, then the game's development is based on the level of capability that the tools enable. That makes the game disproportionately challenging for people who don't use the tools.

Let's be honest here. Are we ever going to see the expansion of equipsets - something I desperately need before I can even consider playing another job? We're never going to see those kinds of updates because everyone bypasses that limitation - there is no feedback on the matter, and anyone who suggests that they might be necessary is met with an avalanche of responses claiming that it's not needed. It's a huge advantage most people have over me; it enables them to do things I simply can't do.

It's also worth pointing out that these tools aren't monolithic. What some people consider acceptable is different to what others consider acceptable. The umbrella term is effectively meaningless. It applies equally to a person just using it to play the game in windowed mode as it does to a person using its functionality to marshal a bot army. Where is the line drawn? Who decides?

I'm not so stupid that I expect SE to start stamping down on these tools. The rot goes too deep for them to root it out anymore without damaging themselves massively. But that doesn't mean that they're harmless. The fact remains that I can never achieve the same level of game mastery as most other players, and it's tiresome to constantly read about how "harmless" that is.

I'm not having a go at you specifically, Alhanelem, so apologies if it comes off that way.

[Sirmarki]

I'm sorry, but FFXI and "popular on youtube" just don't go in the same sentence.

I'll rephrase that then.... As popular as FFXI gets on Youtube. Better?

[Sirmarki]

We're never going to see those kinds of updates because everyone bypasses that limitation - there is no feedback on the matter, and anyone who suggests that they might be necessary is met with an avalanche of responses claiming that it's not needed. It's a huge advantage most people have over me; it enables them to do things I simply can't do.

Very valid points here once again Jerbob and a difficult situation that has probably gone too far now for any kind of reversal.

[Sirmarki]

Well one thing is for sure, this subject does cause a degree of division, both on the forums and within the game.

We need some guidance from the powers that be, and some intervention. After all, it is all there in the ToS.

[Pixela]

Lets do some common sense thinking:

RMT RMT because they make money doing it, many of them do this as their main means of making money.

"cheaters" "cheat" because they have played the game for many many years and are annoyed with stupid long grinds or are used to their easier means of doing things (that don't really hurt anyone else much), most windower addons are "cheating"

The goal of the STFU (keep in mind these people work on FFXI and FFXIV too) isn't to stop all cheating and RMT, because you simply can't. The point of the STFU is to control both of these things to the least disruptive versions of these things and not impact the profitability of the game. To use an analogy, you train your cat to pee in the litter box and not on the bed. You don't train your cat to not pee anymore.

Lets say the STFU listen to you guys and take a zero tolerance policy, what will happen?

Firstly the price of GIL will skyrocket in price (cause the demand is still there), making selling gil procurement far more profitable.

You will have all these people with a lot of time and knowledge of automated systems and programs, really angry:
The higher price of gil will get the attention of the more vicious RMT sellers.
The current "truce" between the RMT and the company will end, all forms of making gil will now be taken advantage of full force.

What will this mean?
The sellers who cannot adapt will go full force into an automated DDOS campaign enmasse, so almost everyone won't be able to login or stay logged in for months or longer.
The hardcore sellers will start hacking FFXI websites and hacking FFXI players (who are not the most tech savvy people) to put trojans onto their computers, so they can steal all your gil to sell that instead. Can't farm it? ok they will steal it from you and sell that.
The farmers will now go for the fastest means of farming gil, this means doing content like spamming ambuscade or mass auction house manipulation or scams.

Right now the RMT know they are watched, so they do their "job" in the least obnoxious way possible. They farm sparks out of the way of others etc.

For the "cheaters", and keep in mind "cheating" is a fairly minor thing in ffxi. I've played f2p mmorpgs, you have no idea how bad it can be on other games.

These people will simply stop paying to play the game, and many of them have multiple accounts. There will be a drastic drop in revenue for almost no gain at all, this makes zero business sense.

Square right now stop the most egregious forms of RMT and cheating, there is a control system in effect and both sides know it.

If you are mad about "botted" shields, this is a failure of content. Make the shields less of a boring grind or add a harder way to get them, like clearing master trials or something. If you make something, long, easy and boring, people will bot it. If you are mad about bots for CP, they need to find better ways for players to get Job points.