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  1. #41
    Player Divaud's Avatar
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    May 2014
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    31
    Character
    Divaud
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    GEO Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Alhanelem View Post
    In defense of the tool creators, they generally didn't intend for any of this and don't condone cheating. Things like the medal duping and voidwatch exploit were possible because of security flaws in the game that anyone with the proper knowledge and skill could have exploited.

    But tying back to the topic at hand, ultimately every player deserves an economy free of item duping and RMT-farmed gil, and I'm against the idea of creating a special space for this- They simply have to stop half-___ing (I really can't think of a sanitized alternative to that term...) it: either devote more time to keeping the game clean or just give up entirely. I'd really like SE to demonstrate that integrity is worth something and not let the fact that a client is paying them money get in the way of them receiving punishment for breaking the rules.

    They absolutely should not capitulate and create a "safe space" and leave the rest of the population who doesn't feel like they should have to pay more for a cleaner experience (since they didn't have to for up to the last 18 years) stuck in an increasingly corrupt environment. Those players are more likely to just leave than transfer, do you really want to see more legit players quit?
    I'm reading your posts and wondering if you are just unaware of how ubiquitous some "tools" are, or if you truly think they have little to no effect? I can understand your perspective how some tools actually make the game accessible for some people due to things they can't help (eyesight/disability/etc)

    But lets look at one of the most prevalent "tools": Gearswap

    Are you of the opinion that it is simply a QoL tool?

    Because I'd argue it quite literally fits the definition of cheating. It allows you to do things you otherwise are not able to do. The game has a 1 second cooldown between equipment swaps yet this tool circumvents that.

    Where do you stand on that issue?
    (4)

  2. #42
    Player TullemoreAsuraFFXI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    307
    Character
    Tullemore
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    DRK Lv 99
    Today, the first 10 mins spent in game was adding names to /blist. These names are unworthy of a millisecond of my or anyone else's attention because they was obvious bot entities polluting /yell with offers to sell capacity points.

    Do we need an officially sanctioned forum topic per server to report these publicly for Square-Enix to take notice?
    (0)

  3. #43
    Player Sirmarki's Avatar
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    Dec 2013
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    1,117
    Character
    Sirmarki
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by TullemoreAsuraFFXI View Post
    Today, the first 10 mins spent in game was adding names to /blist. These names are unworthy of a millisecond of my or anyone else's attention because they was obvious bot entities polluting /yell with offers to sell capacity
    I gave up with that, with a limited 100 space on the /blist, I had to remove all of those in order to make space for the trolls and mercs. I then have to repeat the process every few days, it is just impossible to keep up:

    (0)
    Last edited by Sirmarki; 05-29-2020 at 02:27 AM.

    Sirmarki, ex-Fenrir, a young warrior, in the heyday.

  4. #44
    Player TullemoreAsuraFFXI's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    307
    Character
    Tullemore
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    DRK Lv 99
    That's very true if you're attempting to squelch mercs.
    (0)

  5. #45
    Player Jerbob's Avatar
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    Aug 2011
    Posts
    306
    Character
    Jeral
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Soraii View Post
    You should very much make use of the addon that blocks all of that.
    This is an excellent example of seemingly innocent addons potentially affecting the game to the detriment of legitimate players!

    Before everyone starts hammering "reply with quote", in this unique instance I'm not going to claim that people using the addon are cheating and gaining an advantage in the game (be sure to bookmark, that won't happen often). I also understand the desire to block out this nonsense as quickly and efficiently as possible, because I am also sick of it.

    However, if only a very small number of people complain about this nonsense, because most of them can't see it, SE aren't going to update their own chat filter to block it. Voila - addons having a material effect on game development to the detriment of everyone else!

    Yeah, unfortunately they probably won't do that anyway, I'll readily accept that. But if the majority are using tools to block it, they definitely won't. And, of course, everyone who's completely oblivious to the spam is much less likely to complain about the infestation of RMT to the STF. Again, I'm not claiming that'd cause SE to fix the problem, but by ignoring it they definitely won't.

    I'm not gonna get ranty about this one, but I do think it's an excellent example of a principle that applies to a lot of the cheating that takes place.
    (2)

  6. #46
    Player
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Posts
    25
    I've been complaining about the garbage in yell since yell became a feature.

    I've mentioned a hundred or more times that blocking people does nothing (because of limitations and alternate accounts), but blocking words is effective. The best way to get square to do something is to show them it works, so they can steal the idea with minimal effort.
    (0)

  7. #47
    Player Jerbob's Avatar
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    Aug 2011
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    306
    Character
    Jeral
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Soraii View Post
    The best way to get square to do something is to show them it works, so they can steal the idea with minimal effort.
    It's not rocket science or a new concept. They don't need to steal any complicated idea. They already have the framework in place for /tell filters. It's a little bit arrogant for us as players to assume that SE needs tool authors to instruct them how to apply a regular expression.

    What they do need is for people en-masse to highlight that something needs to be done. And again, I'm not saying that always works, because it doesn't. But not saying anything is worse.

    The idea that tool usage is the best way to spur on game development is nonsense. People who are using tools don't need SE to create those tools again because they already have the functionality they want. When those people are in the majority, any effort from the minority to ask for features is going to be ignored simply by rule of numbers.
    (2)

  8. #48
    Player Alhanelem's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    7,166
    Character
    Tahngarthor
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Divaud View Post
    I'm reading your posts and wondering if you are just unaware of how ubiquitous some "tools" are, or if you truly think they have little to no effect? I can understand your perspective how some tools actually make the game accessible for some people due to things they can't help (eyesight/disability/etc)

    But lets look at one of the most prevalent "tools": Gearswap

    Are you of the opinion that it is simply a QoL tool?

    Because I'd argue it quite literally fits the definition of cheating. It allows you to do things you otherwise are not able to do. The game has a 1 second cooldown between equipment swaps yet this tool circumvents that.

    Where do you stand on that issue?
    "gearswap" doesn't really do anything you couldn't achieve in some fashion with the game alone (at least, not anymore). Before the advent of gear sets and switching to them with macros, you'd have a point, but not any more. the gear set feature is by far the best new feature they've ever added to the game. Does that tool make it easier? Yes. Can the things it does be achieved without it? Yes, most definitely. From my view it fits squarely into QoL (That said: I've never once used it because I just don't see it as necessary). It rarely comes into play that that cooldown or lack thereof has any impact on anything, I'd challenge you to find an actual measurable difference that extends beyond margin of error. I'm also pretty confident the minimum gear swap delay is for server performance reasons and not game-play balance reasons. It kind of toes the line. But I'd want to see proof that gs makes anything that wouldn't be possible possible, or has a measurable effect on making hard content easier (provable dps increase outside of margin of error, etc) before I would entertain the idea of it being cheating.

    I'm well aware of how prevalent external tools are. I'd wager even a majority of the population uses one particular program for one reason or another. But most of these tools weren't created to cheat, they were created to make our lives easier by mitigating the flaws in FFXI's UI and technical limitations.

    I'm also well aware of the prevalence of people actually cheating- speed/pos hacking, exploiting exploits for duping (which at least some of those have been addressed), etc). But these things are (or should be easily detectable by SE, as you have to manipulate information that's being sent to the server to do them, and they do punish this, though it seems like they can't keep up. But as far as I'm concerned, stuff like this is a different ball game entirely

    For me, the game is nostalgia at this point. If SE isn't going to fix/update their UI and finds a way to start banning people for things like putting the HP/MP/TP bars on the screen where I can see them, I really don't HAVE to play this game. It would be unfortunate, but there's always FFXIV, or some other game made by not-SE.

    I stand by my feeling that UI tweaks are not cheating. If they were, you'd have to ban most of the otherwise legitimate players in this game, and wow would have to ban literally everybody, as well as numerous other MMOs.

    FFXIV is still one of the very few MMOs that offers a UI customizable enough that external tools and mods aren't necessary for anyone.
    (1)
    Last edited by Alhanelem; 06-01-2020 at 03:39 AM.

  9. #49
    Player Alhanelem's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    7,166
    Character
    Tahngarthor
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerbob View Post
    It's not rocket science or a new concept. They don't need to steal any complicated idea. They already have the framework in place for /tell filters. It's a little bit arrogant for us as players to assume that SE needs tool authors to instruct them how to apply a regular expression.

    What they do need is for people en-masse to highlight that something needs to be done. And again, I'm not saying that always works, because it doesn't. But not saying anything is worse.

    The idea that tool usage is the best way to spur on game development is nonsense. People who are using tools don't need SE to create those tools again because they already have the functionality they want. When those people are in the majority, any effort from the minority to ask for features is going to be ignored simply by rule of numbers.
    It's harder than you think to create a filter that suppresses RMT without also suppressing some amount of legitimate chat. And this is an important consideration because you won't know if your message wasn't sent.

    Also: Yes, tool users may already have the functionality they want, but they can still encourage them to make that functionality available to everyone. Not everyone is so selfish.
    (0)
    Last edited by Alhanelem; 06-01-2020 at 03:40 AM.

  10. #50
    Player Sirmarki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,117
    Character
    Sirmarki
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Alhanelem View Post
    "gearswap" doesn't really do anything you couldn't achieve in some fashion with the game alone (at least, not anymore)
    History has says otherwise on that matter.

    While I understand your need for a clearer/more attractive UI and your justification for it. The problem is this:
    When you have users determining what is right or wrong to use, you end up with blurred lines and different opinions (as we can see here). Any third party option outside of the native format opens up the possibility of cheating, kind of like Pandora's box.
    Especially when people are able to initiate automation by the use of scripts/code that wouldn't otherwise belong in the game, and never would be added as a native feature.

    The other problem is with what I have mentioned above is people reporting technical difficulties on the forums, that are likely to be caused by third party software. Said person will fill out a bug/tech-report, but not mention then external program being used giving SE a massive headache, and of course, none of that stuff will be Technically supported here.

    I worked for a large IT support company once and we were only permitted to support what we were instructed to support, any kind of interaction from third-party software would be a case of referring them to the vendor of that software.
    (2)
    Last edited by Sirmarki; 06-01-2020 at 07:18 AM.

    Sirmarki, ex-Fenrir, a young warrior, in the heyday.

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