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  1. #11
    Player Sirmarki's Avatar
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    Dec 2013
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    1,117
    Character
    Sirmarki
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerbob View Post
    We have a character literally called "Jobpoints" selling JP in /yell, we have currency bots in Dynamis.
    Oh, it gets better:

    (0)

    Sirmarki, ex-Fenrir, a young warrior, in the heyday.

  2. #12
    Player Pixela's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    569
    Character
    Lynettta
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    Comedy is lost on some people.
    (0)

  3. #13
    Player Sirmarki's Avatar
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    Dec 2013
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    1,117
    Character
    Sirmarki
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Alhanelem View Post
    But basically, transfer off asura and your problems will be greatly diminished
    Then you get rid of a one problem, to face another. I was considering this, stepping down to an apparently less busy server, however:

    I was watching a live stream the other night with a player on said server. He was in /yell trying to create a CP party for the livestream.
    Firstly /yell was dead, sure, no RMT, Mercs or JP sellers, but nothing else either.

    After an hour or so, he had to give up and change the planned video because he could not get one single person to join, in the height of a CP campaign. We are talking about an established player here.

    So no, that does not appeal to me at all.

    There is a reason SE record live streams from Asura, because it has people featured in the video and the game appears very busy. This is what any business want, a game looking busy.
    (0)

    Sirmarki, ex-Fenrir, a young warrior, in the heyday.

  4. #14
    Player Jerbob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    306
    Character
    Jeral
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Soraii View Post
    There's no money in banning accounts.
    A common assertion, but there's no proof. It's more complicated than "more accounts more money". How people have stopped playing, or play less frequently and skip months, because of the rampant cheating? How much has the quality of the game decreased because people cheat to complete content early or have an impact on the development of new content, and how as that affected player retention? How many cheaters quit early because they've made the game too easy for themselves? I don't have the answers to these questions - no more than anyone knows for sure that multiboxers and botters are benevolent angels who keep the game alive for the rest of us non-cheating proles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pixela View Post
    Comedy is lost on some people.
    The fact that it's a recently-created mule with a crafting shield basically proves that the owner is cheating, regardless of whether they are guilty of the ToS violation implied by their name. The fact that cheaters think this is all so hilarious is part of the problem.
    (1)

  5. #15
    Player Sirmarki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,117
    Character
    Sirmarki
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Pixela View Post
    Comedy is lost on some people.
    Yeh, I have a sense of humour, but what are the odds of people cheating the system when it comes to crafting?

    I wonder how many shields were made legit? Seems to be quite a few anon players running around in circles in the likes of Palborough Mines, Crawlers Nest etc for days/months on end, with no sleep so it seems.
    (2)

    Sirmarki, ex-Fenrir, a young warrior, in the heyday.

  6. #16
    Player Alhanelem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    7,166
    Character
    Tahngarthor
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Sirmarki View Post
    Then you get rid of a one problem, to face another. I was considering this, stepping down to an apparently less busy server, however:

    I was watching a live stream the other night with a player on said server. He was in /yell trying to create a CP party for the livestream.
    Firstly /yell was dead, sure, no RMT, Mercs or JP sellers, but nothing else either.
    /yell is dead on every server, even asura, where the RMT drowns out anything else. I'm on shiva and I've had no problem finding people to do JP when I want to have a group But I like to do unpopular things with some jobs so I save other people the trouble and do it with trust instead anyway.. The problem, if anything, is a good chunk of the regulars don't have a real need to do it anymore because they have the jobs they play mastered.

    People do this sort of thing in linkshells, not /yell. Sounds like your streamer needs to get himself a linkshell. I'll take a light population over half that population being RMT or hackers any day.

    "looking busy" looks nice from the outside, but in reality the game experience is just better on not-Asura. But if people didn't decide to pile on it in the first place, things would be much more balanced out today. SE honestly should not have removed the world pass system.


    The fact that it's a recently-created mule with a crafting shield basically proves that the owner is cheating, regardless of whether they are guilty of the ToS violation implied by their name. The fact that cheaters think this is all so hilarious is part of the problem.
    The fact that cheaters are so unconcerned that they'll openly admit that they're doing it and even make fun of it says SE needs to step up their game.
    (3)
    Last edited by Alhanelem; 05-24-2020 at 02:40 AM.

  7. #17
    Player Sirmarki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
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    1,117
    Character
    Sirmarki
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Alhanelem View Post
    /yell is dead on every server, even asura, where the RMT drowns out anything else. I'm on shiva and I've had no problem finding people to do JP when I want to have a group But I like to do unpopular things with some jobs so I save other people the trouble and do it with trust instead anyway.. The problem, if anything, is a good chunk of the regulars don't have a real need to do it anymore because they have the jobs they play mastered.
    Not really, you do get people yelling on Asura wanting to create CP parties, and they get filled quickly, for the most part - Same with the likes of SR and Ambuscade to name a few.. I am, however, wondering how much % of people pay the botters/RMT/job point sellers and simply afk at night. I'm guessing they are popular seeing 1. They are still there and 2. There seem to be an increasing number of them yelling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alhanelem View Post
    People do this sort of thing in linkshells, not /yell. Sounds like your streamer needs to get himself a linkshell
    They are in a linkshell, and they are very popular on Youtube.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alhanelem View Post
    The fact that cheaters are so unconcerned that they'll openly admit that they're doing it and even make fun of it says SE needs to step up their game.
    Yeh, they are pretty blatant now.
    (0)
    Last edited by Sirmarki; 05-24-2020 at 05:35 AM.

    Sirmarki, ex-Fenrir, a young warrior, in the heyday.

  8. #18
    Player Pixela's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    569
    Character
    Lynettta
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    Most people do not care about this stuff at all, there are a handful of people with a stick up their butt about it but that's it. Same people complaining over and over.

    As long as they don't a) bot ambuscade and cause massive queues, b) hack peoples accounts or c) cheat in a way that directly impacts others I don't care. They can bot their insane grind shields all they want, they can bot farm sparks, they can cheat win stuff on Very Hard mode. It doesn't hurt most people and actually has a positive impact in many ways because it lowers prices on endgame gear we buy and stocks the AH.
    (1)

  9. #19
    Player Jerbob's Avatar
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    Aug 2011
    Posts
    306
    Character
    Jeral
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Pixela View Post
    As long as they don't a) bot ambuscade and cause massive queues
    Why is it not okay for botters to block access to Ambuscade, but okay for them to restrict my access to Ceizak delve by making it harder for me to get pop items?
    Why is it okay for them to restrict my ability to farm in Dynamis - Jeuno by hording all the mobs 24/7?
    Why is it okay for them to infest all the CP locations on Asura?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pixela View Post
    b) hack peoples accounts
    I've not heard of this happening, so fair play to you on this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pixela View Post
    c) cheat in a way that directly impacts others
    You know what directly impacts me?

    Cure bots in my parties.
    Sparks bots fueling RMT.
    Sparks bots causing massive inflation.
    Sparks bots denying me access to pop items.
    CP bots denying people access to JP camps.
    RMT /yells every time I enter a town.
    Longer lines in merit battlefields because people take their bot army instead of joining parties.
    HQ cheaters forcing me to either become an accessory to cheating or never buy HQ items.
    Gilbuyers forcing me to become an accessory if I ever sell items on the AH.
    Constant cheating causing players to get tired of the nonsense and quit, reducing the effective game population

    And of course, let's not forget

    Skewed statistics reported back to SE on fight difficulty when people evade mechanics by cheating
    Skewed statistics on crafting shield creation because people bot them 24/7
    Skewed statistics on the usability of latent effect items when people have programs auto-equip them when latent conditions are in place
    Skewed feedback on integral game systems that desperately need updates, like macros and equipsets, because people just don't use them
    And the subsequent lack of fixes, balancing and updates for these things because, as far as SE can tell, everyone's fine with how things are.

    And of course, straight up not being able to be as good as people who cheat, no matter what I do.

    It DIRECTLY impacts me, and anyone else who is affected by any of these things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pixela View Post
    actually has a positive impact in many ways because it lowers prices on endgame gear we buy and stocks the AH.
    The reason the prices are so high is that people can literally print money with bot armies, and people who don't have bot armies can buy gil from people who do.

    Buying items created by cheating makes you an accessory, whether you like it or not - you shouldn't have to make a moral choice every time you buy an item from the AH.

    And of course, statistics on all of this are fed back to SE. If everyone's got the cheat-crafted gear, that's the new baseline, and those miniscule HQ percentages must be acceptable if everyone's got the gear, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pixela View Post
    stick up their butt
    It's lodged up there pretty far, I'll freely admit. And every time someone tries to make excuses for the cheaters, it gets pushed up just a little further.
    (2)

  10. #20
    Player Sirmarki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,117
    Character
    Sirmarki
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Pixela View Post
    Most people do not care about this stuff at all, there are a handful of people with a stick up their butt about it but that's it. Same people complaining over and over.

    As long as they don't a) bot ambuscade and cause massive queues, b) hack peoples accounts or c) cheat in a way that directly impacts others I don't care. They can bot their insane grind shields all they want, they can bot farm sparks, they can cheat win stuff on Very Hard mode. It doesn't hurt most people and actually has a positive impact in many ways because it lowers prices on endgame gear we buy and stocks the AH.
    Did you even think about each and every element of what you just wrote and the potential consequences?

    Same people complaining you say, against the same people cheating (and endorsing cheating by the looks of it)..

    Read the history books, games that got infiltrated with cheats didn't end up in all that great of place...

    Remind me to just skip past your comments from now on :P
    (2)

    Sirmarki, ex-Fenrir, a young warrior, in the heyday.

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