Please stop with the knockback effect moves

[Jerbob]

It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Players who multibox who claim they'd quit if they can't multibox do so because they are so accustomed to multiboxing. If SE had policed multiboxing from the start then those players wouldn't be accustomed to having that advantage over other players, and the community would be healthier as a consequence.

FFXI isn't the same game as it was when we had to wait 3 hours for NMs to pop, so that's not an excuse to multibox. Everyone is busy; a person who decides their time is worth more than fair play isn't some sort of visionary who is better at being an adult than everyone else.

Multibox players contribute to the game financially, but there's no way to assert for certain that this is actually a good trade as the very existence of multiboxing destroys community play. There are plenty of people in this game who lament being unable to access content, or having to pay a multibox army run by one person to get clears or acquire gear. How many people have quit because they can't do what they want to do? How many people have quit because they're sick of being in an alliance which is half automated? We don't know. There's no way to say if the multiboxers who caused this damage are compensating for it economically; however, we can be absolutely certain that they can't compensate for the reduction in the size of the community. Bots aren't people.

Trust are intentionally limited. Whether they are a good thing for the game or not is another debate; they aren't, however, directly comparable to a person multiboxing. Everyone has access to trust - not everyone has access to a perfectly customisable party of bots. And of course, a multiboxer can clear tough content. Generally speaking, you can't do that with trust. There are exceptions, of course, but they are in the minority.

And the elephant in the room is that it's not possible to multibox without cheating. I've tried to run two characters on two different machines - perhaps some people can do it effectively, but I really don't see how. It's almost impossible, and it's exhausting. So every single person who's got a small army on /follow behind them is cheating to some degree; they either have means of transferring commands to their other characters, or those characters are straight up bots. That's a massive advantage they have over other people who are using trusts, or even partying with other people - it's intrinsically unfair. Advocating a change in the game and justifying it by stating that it'll help someone cheat more effectively is absurd.

I have some sympathy for the people who've grown dependent on multibox cheating because, for them, returning to playing on the same level as everyone else would be a massive jump in the difficulty of the game. But that's not a reason to allow it to continue. I'm very tired of people asking if they can "bring their alts" to everything and having bots whirring around in the background while I'm trying to enjoy myself. They certainly aren't enhancing my game experience. There have been many days when I've just not wanted to log on because I'll have to deal with multiboxers and bots in almost every zone I go to.

So yes please to reducing knockback spam, but let's do it for legitimate players and not for people who want to cheat with bot armies, eh?

[Pixela]

I think one of the problems is people don't understand what multiboxing is, they just assume it's a person controlling one character and having bots on all the others? this is now what mutiboxing is for most people. They control them all themselves and swap between instances to do so, they are not glorified trusts. In-fact there are many well geared players who can solo far better with trusts than someone can with multiple characters, I've seen them do it in Reisejima.

Most players play ffxi as a solo game, multibox or not. They can use trusts to solo ve/e endgame just fine, and what they can't they can merc.

Regardless, I think most would like to see capes to reduce knockback to 100% anyway.

[Dragoy]

Not a big fan of Knockback either. It's fine to have it here and there, but it can get pretty ridiculous. Equipment to nullify it would indeed be pretty nice.

I think we need more things using something like Reaving Wind, because that can be funny. :]

(Okay maybe that's not such a good idea.)

And the elephant in the room is that it's not possible to multibox without cheating. I've tried to run two characters on two different machines - perhaps some people can do it effectively, but I really don't see how. It's almost impossible, and it's exhausting. So every single person who's got a small army on /follow behind them is cheating to some degree; they either have means of transferring commands to their other characters, or those characters are straight up bots.

At least with only two accounts at a time, it is possible, but yes, it can be quite exhausting, and not very effective. That said, having a bard as a secondary character for example is most definitely better than any of the alter ego bards, and it doesn't require control all the time.

Indeed, I can only talk about doing it with two accounts though, and certainly have no desire to try with three or more. These days I only play one because, well, it's expensive, and I don't have the energy or real need for it.

So, to an extent, I agree, but it is somewhat doable. I believe it doesn't necessarily require a machine per account, as one can use Wine or virtualisation (neither modify the game client or fiddle with RAM, and as such, I don't know of a rule forbidding these methods). Having actual machines does allow for better simultaneous control, though one could use multiple gamepads or/and keyboards for each client.

[Jerbob]

I think one of the problems is people don't understand what multiboxing is, they just assume it's a person controlling one character and having bots on all the others? this is now what mutiboxing is for most people. They control them all themselves and swap between instances to do so,

In my experience this is absolutely not what most people consider multiboxing to be. To be clear, I'm not accusing you of misrepresenting the truth, and this may well be how you operate, but no-one I know who multiboxes tabs between instances to do so. They either use third party software to control their personal army from one character, set them up as bots, or some combination of the two. Controlling two characters at once is only vaguely feasible - I've seen (and unfortunately unwittingly grouped up with) people with whole parties that are clearly automated or centrally controlled. It's incredibly annoying.

I think that tabbing between completely non-automated instances is (perhaps debatably) a different issue to a fully automated personal multibox army. If that's what you've been talking about the whole time then I apologise for somewhat derailing the thread. However, I do maintain that multiboxing even without central control or automation is damaging to the community because the bard you level to pre-buff you is replacing a real person. Perhaps it's not the same level of problem as the multibox armies, but the effect on the game isn't positive. I recognise that finding that person isn't always easy or even possible, but that's the price we all pay for playing an MMO. The game has changed, and so have we as players, but that doesn't mean we can ignore the impacts of our choices.

So, to an extent, I agree, but it is somewhat doable. I believe it doesn't necessarily require a machine per account, as one can use Wine or virtualisation (neither modify the game client or fiddle with RAM, and as such, I don't know of a rule forbidding these methods). Having actual machines does allow for better simultaneous control, though one could use multiple gamepads or/and keyboards for each client.

It would be interesting to know what SE's take is on this. As a fellow Wine user I agree with your assessment that there's no rule that forbids these methods, and it's not something I'd condemn someone for in terms of ToS violation so long as it's not used in conjunction with any additional third party automation. But it's hard to say what the word of God would be.

[Divaud]

I think one of the problems is people don't understand what multiboxing is, they just assume it's a person controlling one character and having bots on all the others? this is now what mutiboxing is for most people. They control them all themselves and swap between instances to do so, they are not glorified trusts. In-fact there are many well geared players who can solo far better with trusts than someone can with multiple characters, I've seen them do it in Reisejima.

Most players play ffxi as a solo game, multibox or not. They can use trusts to solo ve/e endgame just fine, and what they can't they can merc.

Regardless, I think most would like to see capes to reduce knockback to 100% anyway.

A single person soloing ambuscade can get X amount of hallmarks per month

That same person with 2 (or more) accounts can get X amount (times 2+) of hallmarks per month. Even if the alts just sit there and don't contribute, they still get the hallmarks.

Is the negative effect on the single player not obvious here?

[Sirmarki]

Is the negative effect on the single player not obvious here?

It can also have a negative degree on prices. On Asura gil has lost most of its value. People are spending crazy amounts of cash and increasing the prices of common items. There is so much in circulation, it is out of control.
New players coming into the fold don't stand a chance. 3 million gil for Utsusemi: Ni, as an example.

They can use trusts to solo ve/e endgame just fine, and what they can't they can merc.

Multibox can enter any content. Trust's can't. Example: Delve, a party of 3 (multibox) and repeat Delve all day long filling the AH with the items and setting the prices. A solo player can't even enter.
This has the potential of people grabbing control of certain aspects of the AH and completely monopolising it. Obviously Delve drops a lot of important items, and also need to be cleared for progress into other things.

[Cdryik]

The things with multi box is,

Do you play them alltogether (3 or more), if so, how ? i can't think of a multi-account that can play 5 chars at the same time without the use of third program.

[Pixela]

I wanna point out that this argument against mutliboxers who "cheat" is pointless in regard to knockback anyway.

[Divaud]

I wanna point out that this argument against mutliboxers who "cheat" is pointless in regard to knockback anyway.

It's not simply the multi-boxers that "cheat" that negatively affect the game. (whatever it is you mean by cheat)

They all do.

[Pixela]

It's not simply the multi-boxers that "cheat" that negatively affect the game. (whatever it is you mean by cheat)

They all do.

Everyone that plays impacts the game, if you have a day off work you impact the game more. This thread is about knockback, not your personal bugbear anyway.