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  1. #1
    Player Xilk's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    704
    Character
    Xilkk
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99

    Homogeneous Game Play - I don't want it

    There appears to be a trend in the development of FFXI, in which the fighting is becoming more homogeneous.
    Examples would be nerfing the effectiveness of repeated blood pacts, and ready moves; nerfing geomancy effectiveness, nerfing the effectiveness of Area of Effect spells.

    I do not like this trend. I understand that amongst players there is a tendancy to latch onto 1 strategy and stick with it. However, I really don't like it when the design limits to a single strategy for success.

    I would mention the example of Absolute Virtue BEFORE the level cap increased. The design was so narrow, and the information so lacking that no one had a legitimate victory. Whenever players came up with a win, the game was patched, calling it an exploit.

    The variety of different battle styles is one of the things I think makes FFXI so enduring and fun. I think most current FFXI players have played Final Fantasy XIV, however we came back to FFXI instead. I think the battles are the main reason.

    As wonderful as many aspects of 14 are, the game really doesn't compare to the freedom and demand of 11 in battle and gameplay. I think 14 is far more Homogeneous in its battle strategies. I think going the same direction with 11 would be a mistake.

    I'm reflecting about Odyssey when these thoughts are coming together. I know that more content will be added to Oddysey, presumably in the near future. However, currently it is a time-gated, slow upgrade process. I feel like it fails to meet the objective of 'exploration' and 'adventure'. I think it quickly became only more grind.

    How can you explore, when limited to a 30 min window per day? The only objective is farming lustreless scales. Franky, even though there is gear that will improve my sets.. I'm not motivated to farm it.

    I feel like Abyssea was MUCH better at aspects of exploration and adventure.

    Abyssea had time limits, but they were flexible. You could enter abyssea, solo, party, or alliance with meaningful and various objectives. There was alot to explore, and it felt free to go at one's own pace.

    Odyssey is not like this. Odyssea, is simply: hurry and farm as much as you can. Its boring. Omen is much better than Odyssea for fun farming also..

    I don't see the value in the variety in Odyssea. There are many monster camps, but there is no value in touching any of them except for the Halos.

    I don't like the non-targetable mobs. I don't like the nerfed AoE.

    I want to go in with and explore, but these trends keep pushing towards a uniform play style, which is boring.
    If I wanted that, I would play ff14, or something else.
    (5)
    Choh Moui | Rongo-Nango | Lhu Mhakaracca | Lungo-Nango | Nyumomo
    --Beastmaster Forever--

  2. #2
    Player TullemoreAsuraFFXI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    307
    Character
    Tullemore
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    DRK Lv 99
    Power creep on melee offensive output, specifically when choreographed with bards geo and cors is what it boils down to. With all the aftermath, R15, massive amounts of +WSD equipment, multi-hit equipment available; TP spam is way over-tuned in comparison to the eras of Zilart, CoP, ToAU, WotG. ToAU was probably what many considered to be the "sweet-spot" in balance.

    We all love our capabilities when utilizing offensive melee jobs when available stacking support can lay waste to enemy HP in a hurry.

    The issue is the effectiveness of what you define as homogeneous is a result of abandonment of BLM, the restrictions placed on usages of Magic Burst, and stagnate offensive power of elemental magic spells without a Magic Burst. Some of this could be alleviated with itemization, but most of it needs to be addressed with power capacities within tiers of INT, Job Point allocations, and Job Point gifts prior to the application of equipment. Additionally the Magic Burst restrictions are oppressing in comparison to melee TP spamming strategies.

    Archery is in a bad state in comparison to marksmanship. RNG peaks with double shot active, but quickly falters when double shot is on it's down-timer. Below is what i proposed in the FFXI Digest May of 2019.

    Rng > Adjustment Proposal > Dead Aim retains all it's existing values + Add archery skill increase corresponding to Dead Aim job trait as follows; Tier I +15 archery skill, Tier II +20 archery skill, Teir III +25 archery skill, Teir IV +30 archery skill, Teir V +35 archery skill, Teir VI +40 archery skill.

    Itemization; create new 1-hand axe ambuscade "AND" SU4/SU5 class weapons that give +8% rapid shot, -6 enmity, HP+65 Accuracy+50 Ranged Accuracy+50 Magic Accuracy+50 Magic Damage+217 Axe skill +269 Parrying skill +269 Magic Accuracy skill +255 (Ambuscade Axe Detonator: +50% damage, velocity shot: +30 Ranged Attack).

    REMOVE +haste values from all RNG job specific equipment and reforged versions {Artifact, Relic, Empyrean} judiciously REPLACE with +values for +double shot +triple shot +rapid shot +snap shot.
    (0)
    Last edited by TullemoreAsuraFFXI; 04-04-2020 at 01:14 PM.

  3. #3
    Player Gwydion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    503
    Character
    Galkashield
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    THF Lv 1
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilk View Post
    There appears to be a trend in the development of FFXI, in which the fighting is becoming more homogeneous.
    Examples would be nerfing the effectiveness of repeated blood pacts, and ready moves; nerfing geomancy effectiveness, nerfing the effectiveness of Area of Effect spells.

    I do not like this trend. I understand that amongst players there is a tendancy to latch onto 1 strategy and stick with it. However, I really don't like it when the design limits to a single strategy for success.

    I would mention the example of Absolute Virtue BEFORE the level cap increased. The design was so narrow, and the information so lacking that no one had a legitimate victory. Whenever players came up with a win, the game was patched, calling it an exploit.

    The variety of different battle styles is one of the things I think makes FFXI so enduring and fun. I think most current FFXI players have played Final Fantasy XIV, however we came back to FFXI instead. I think the battles are the main reason.

    As wonderful as many aspects of 14 are, the game really doesn't compare to the freedom and demand of 11 in battle and gameplay. I think 14 is far more Homogeneous in its battle strategies. I think going the same direction with 11 would be a mistake.

    I'm reflecting about Odyssey when these thoughts are coming together. I know that more content will be added to Oddysey, presumably in the near future. However, currently it is a time-gated, slow upgrade process. I feel like it fails to meet the objective of 'exploration' and 'adventure'. I think it quickly became only more grind.

    How can you explore, when limited to a 30 min window per day? The only objective is farming lustreless scales. Franky, even though there is gear that will improve my sets.. I'm not motivated to farm it.

    I feel like Abyssea was MUCH better at aspects of exploration and adventure.

    Abyssea had time limits, but they were flexible. You could enter abyssea, solo, party, or alliance with meaningful and various objectives. There was alot to explore, and it felt free to go at one's own pace.

    Odyssey is not like this. Odyssea, is simply: hurry and farm as much as you can. Its boring. Omen is much better than Odyssea for fun farming also..

    I don't see the value in the variety in Odyssea. There are many monster camps, but there is no value in touching any of them except for the Halos.

    I don't like the non-targetable mobs. I don't like the nerfed AoE.

    I want to go in with and explore, but these trends keep pushing towards a uniform play style, which is boring.
    If I wanted that, I would play ff14, or something else.
    OP, I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiment and I think there should be an exploration aspect in Odyssey. I think SE considers converting Chests to Mimics a means of exploration. I guess it is (kind of). However, it is nice to see that SE included junctions to pop NMs as well as fetters which become junctions, as yet another NM-popping mechanism. I too, was disappointed to see that AoE damage was nerfed.

    Quote Originally Posted by TullemoreAsuraFFXI View Post
    Power creep on melee offensive output, specifically when choreographed with bards geo and cors is what it boils down to. With all the aftermath, R15, massive amounts of +WSD equipment, multi-hit equipment available; TP spam is way over-tuned in comparison to the eras of Zilart, CoP, ToAU, WotG. ToAU was probably what many considered to be the "sweet-spot" in balance. We all love our capabilities when utilizing offensive melee job when available stacking support can lay waste to enemy HP in a hurry. The issue is the effectiveness of what you define as homogeneous is a result of abandonment of BLM, the restrictions placed on usages of Magic Burst, and stagnate offensive power of elemental magic spells without a Magic Burst. Some of this could be alleviated with itemization, but most of it needs to be addressed with power capacities within tiers of INT, Job Point allocations, and Job Point gifts prior to the application of equipment. Additionally the Magic Burst restrictions are oppressing in comparison to melee TP spamming strategies. Archery is in a bad state in comparison to marksmanship. RNG peaks with double shot active, but quickly falters when double shot is on it's down-timer. Below is what i proposed in the FFXI Digest May of 2019.

    Rng > Adjustment Proposal > Dead Aim retains all it's existing values + Add archery skill increase corresponding to Dead Aim job trait as follows; Tier I +15 archery skill, Tier II +20 archery skill, Teir III +25 archery skill, Teir IV +30 archery skill, Teir V +35 archery skill, Teir VI +40 archery skill. Itemization; create new 1-hand axe ambuscade "AND" SU4/SU5 class weapons that give +8% rapid shot, -6 enmity, HP+65 Accuracy+50 Ranged Accuracy+50 Magic Accuracy+50 Magic Damage+217 Axe skill +269 Parrying skill +269 Magic Accuracy skill +255 (Ambuscade Axe Detonator: +50% damage, velocity shot: +30 Ranged Attack).
    REMOVE +haste values from all RNG job specific equipment and reforged versions {Artifact, Relic, Empyrean} judiciously REPLACE with +values for +double shot +triple shot +rapid shot +snap shot.
    Tullemore, I read your posts many times a week and I must say, that you're doing nothing to convey your points in a clear and concise manner. I don't think you mean to do yourself a disservice, but your posts, along with your intended meaning just comes across as globs of incoherent, run-on sentences. Please do yourself and everyone a favor: Stop making word salad. Write your ideas down in Notepad or a Google Doc, consolidate them and then head to the forums. (Your writing can and should assume your audience has greater-than-zero FFXI knowledge). If you make these changes, you'll get higher engagement.

    It is as the saying goes: brevity is the soul of wit.
    (0)
    Last edited by Gwydion; 04-04-2020 at 09:58 AM.

  4. #4
    Player Alhanelem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    7,166
    Character
    Tahngarthor
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    Tullemore, I read your posts many times a week and I must say, that you're doing nothing to convey your points in a clear and concise manner.
    I'm not going to say it's perfect but I understood what he was trying to convey. Try to avoid picking apart people's writing. Instead if you don't understand something, just ask them to clarify.
    (1)

  5. #5
    Player TullemoreAsuraFFXI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    307
    Character
    Tullemore
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    DRK Lv 99
    If you don't outline specifics, then "IF" an adjustment is made you'll likely disapprove of it.
    (0)

  6. #6
    Player Gwydion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    503
    Character
    Galkashield
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    THF Lv 1
    Quote Originally Posted by Alhanelem View Post
    I'm not going to say it's perfect but I understood what he was trying to convey. Try to avoid picking apart people's writing. Instead if you don't understand something, just ask them to clarify.
    No, I think I'll respectfully decline. Thank you.
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player TullemoreAsuraFFXI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    307
    Character
    Tullemore
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    DRK Lv 99
    The interactions within FFXI are extremely complicated.

    We are very far from 8-bit antique console games.

    When discussing various topics concerning game balance there are numerous considerations to account for.

    When discussing various topics concerning content strategies there are numerous considerations to account for.

    To convey the complexity of a topic, certain perceptions need to be established.

    To shorten the keystrokes required to outline these perceptions, a compilation of those catalysts warrant mentioning.

    I could structure the prose differently. I typically favor not to expand explanations into a formal essay that could encompass multiple pages of text.
    (0)

  8. #8
    Player Alhanelem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    7,166
    Character
    Tahngarthor
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post
    No, I think I'll respectfully decline. Thank you.
    "No, I think I'll continue to be a jerk, thank you."

    If you can't show people proper respect on a forum, then don't post on one. For lack of a forum appropriate term, nobody likes people fussing over their grammar and word choice.


    I could structure the prose differently. I typically favor not to expand explanations into a formal essay that could encompass multiple pages of text.
    It's 100% fine, And I usually do this with the understanding that if someone doesn't understand, I'm more than happy to expand on it upon request.
    (0)
    Last edited by Alhanelem; 04-05-2020 at 04:36 AM.