Job point sellers need to be addressed

[Pixela]

Right now on Asura, job point sellers are so rampant that they are impacting the ability for players who don't want to buy them from getting them due to bots operating 24/7 and camps being a limited resource.

I would ask that a developer or at least a community GM staff goto Asura and check Dho gates to see how rampant this is, 3 players perma killing with parties of afk players just behind them. Shouts constantly selling 500 JP for 10 million gil.

I get that the developers don't want to stop people doing this as they want the world to exist with as little intervention as possible, but something really needs to be done because the game is devolving into abyssea worm camps again with armies of afk people getting job points. It's destroying the content the developers are banking on to keep people around and also making it harder for players to do it without resorting to buying.

Some suggestions that I think the developers might accept:

Offer an ROE objective that changes daily to clear content or kill a set number of higher level monsters to get 2-3 job points per day.

Boost the effectiveness of Trizek rings to give larger increases.

Boost how much CP monsters like Aerns in Escha and monsters in Reisen give compared to Apex so that it is an acceptable alternative outside of botters.

Right now job points are so hard to get for "normal players" and so easy to get for "elite players" that the first group are giving up and just buying them cheaply from the 2nd group for low prices that can practically solo them with a geo alt using bots.

The first group need to see a way to get job points themselves so as to not be disheartened and give up, people buying job points in the numbers they are right now is a failure of the developers to address the acquisition rate of getting them and impacting normal players getting them normally too.

[Divaud]

Any change in the rate is only going to exacerbate the issue because it will benefit these botters as well.

The only thing we can advocate for is policing of multi-boxing, but i'm not sure that is realistic, or even against the ToS (not saying it should or shouldn't be I just don't know)


The other option is to leave Asura, because with enough population there will always be this kind of demand regardless of how well it is policed.

[Pixela]

The botters don't care anyway, they sell 500 job points for 10 million. Which is nothing.

[Dzspdref]

One good function would be to limit capacity points by how much time you've had interaction to help kill the targets.
.
I.E. you're afk and do nothing, you get no capacity points. You cast one spell that does under 5% total damage dealt and that's it, then you get under 5% total CP on that kill, etc...
.
This also negates the NEED to pay mercs under TOS, since you helped to remove the kill target IN ANY WAY, then no need to pay.
(Same rule about lotting on a treasure drop that you helped kill and the leader says you cannot lot, but legally you can; it's called trust and learning whom to trust - lessons learned)
.
Mercs would not be legally able to charge for farming CP/JP (sadly what players do in betwixt as "donations" is a loophole).

[Elliander]

I found this thread because I've been getting tired of having cut scenes interrupted by repeated shouts to sell job points. Now it's even worse than it was in 2020. The shouts sell 500 Job points for 4 million (down from 10 million) and 2100p for 15 million. What's the point of getting a master ranking if you can just buy it and go AFK? That shifts the focus from level grinding to gil grinding.

it used to be that a power leveler was just a higher level healer who would sit outside the party and keep everyone alive while they all participated in combat. Now people don't have to do anything at all. What's the point of even playing a game that anyone can just pay to complete and be done with?

It used to take time to level up. I spent 5 years in the old days getting to level 75. Now that can be done in a weekend. Reaching 75 used to be a rite of passage since no matter what help you got you had to face Maat alone, but now you can summon an army of thugs (Trusts) to beat him up for you. It used to be that crafters had to work on gear, but now none of that matters since you level up so fast you can live with older gear until 99 and then just use the free sparks to buy the lvl 99 gear. Add in the ability to buy max job points for a mere 15 million gil and it literally takes less than a month to finish everything off. Then all the story stuff can be dealt with in a week. After that, well, what's left to do?

The moment it became easy to get from level 1 to max level is, in my opinion, the moment this game started to die. It also cheapened the experience for those of us who took the long way. Which is really sad. If the problem can't be fixed going forward I would love to see a "Classic Server" setup with the old leveling schemes.

Personally, I don't mind multi-boxing. I think at this point it helps the game more than it hurts, but with the way Fields of Valor work we have the same problem. You get exp no matter what you do provided that the enemy on the page dies, and while it may be a bit slower than normal exp, you can level an entire party of alts solo no problem while grinding gil. Combined with the "free trial" system and it literally costs $30 USD per alt and no additional time to throw a new character in and get it to max level. That's way too easy.

These issue needs to be addressed one way or another. For any MMO to be successful players need to have something to do in the game. They need goals they can achieve and challenges to overcome. Without that, well, what's the point? You might as well watch a live stream of someone else going through the motions at that point.

One good function would be to limit capacity points by how much time you've had interaction to help kill the targets.
.
I.E. you're afk and do nothing, you get no capacity points. You cast one spell that does under 5% total damage dealt and that's it, then you get under 5% total CP on that kill, etc...
.
This also negates the NEED to pay mercs under TOS, since you helped to remove the kill target IN ANY WAY, then no need to pay.
(Same rule about lotting on a treasure drop that you helped kill and the leader says you cannot lot, but legally you can; it's called trust and learning whom to trust - lessons learned)
.
Mercs would not be legally able to charge for farming CP/JP (sadly what players do in betwixt as "donations" is a loophole).

I very much like this idea, although personally I'd also want to see that people who heal and buff allies who are engaging in combat likewise get credit. The system could work similar to campaign battles which already takes such things into account.

Maybe also make some of the locations actually difficult to reach. For example, after finding most gil farming locations overcamped I found a few in areas that took actual effort to reach which I couldn't just teleport to and found no problems doing my thing there because the bots won't bother with that. If some exp camps were the same way at least it could create an option.

If people want to ruin the game for themselves though, that's their prerogative. Ultimately, no rules are being broken unless they're selling JP for real money directly.

They aren't just ruining it for themselves. For an MMO to exist at all there must be sufficient players to justify keeping the servers in operation. If players can beat the game in a matter of weeks they will move on and do other things and even while playing they aren't likely to work with anyone leveling up which means it's even harder to get real parties going. Then servers have to get shut down and players are pushed together. Eventually, if this problem isn't addressed, the game will die. And, that aside, there's no real sense of accomplishment reaching max level when it's so easy to get there.

Speaking for myself, I come back periodically, but I don't play regularly because of these problems. I'll probably cancel after another month and then might pop back in a few months to a year later. In contrast to this, I was a regular subscriber for many years. I was also in the closed beta for the new Final Fantasy. I'd be a regular subscriber again if only it wasn't so easy to do everything all at once.

That aside, I am not convinced that they aren't breaking rules. I've noticed that the shouts from some players come in on exactly 10 minute intervals. Like, so exact it's fairly obvious that they are using a program to send on that interval. A real person would have some variability in that. Although, oddly, the RMT shouts (which still come in) are more irregular, but that's probably because they get banned almost immediately after. Still, even if it's somehow legit, I still think it's breaking the game.

[Sirmarki]

I'm not saying that these should be implemented, but I'm going to focus on the way things have been dealt with in the past (such as fishing).

1. Cap the amount of job points you can get in one day.
Let's be honest, no non-botting player(s) will grind out 500JP in one session (as constantly advertised in /yell). Although, I guess there are a few hardcore peeps out there.

2. Remember the whole thing about staying in the same place for x,y amount of time has an effect on drops/fishing? (never proven as far as I'm aware).
If said group/person hits a set JP limit, then they can't earn anymore, unless they zone and come back.

[Venat]

Add new form of exp that can only be earned by doing x content. Like dynamis, ambu, odessey, limbus, high tier battlefield, some RoE's.

Basically add in something that a person cant just stand in one spot and do over and over and it has some kind of cooldown to re enter.

[TullemoreAsuraFFXI]

In the Development Team Q&A I and others have promoted the proposal of expanding both the locations and variety of enemy types for Apex enemies. I am personally hoping for a minimum of 20 new locations and a minimum of 10 new Apex enemy types. If need be a whole new set of transporters could be placed into the game to allow players to access numerous freshly created area additions. Maps could be created and populated with Apex enemies or if there's room on an existing map, SE could make a significant addition of playable area then populate that space for those seeking Job Points.

[Venat]

In the Development Team Q&A I and others have promoted the proposal of expanding both the locations and variety of enemy types for Apex enemies. I am personally hoping for a minimum of 20 new locations and a minimum of 10 new Apex enemy types. If need be a whole new set of transporters could be placed into the game to allow players to access numerous freshly created area additions. Maps could be created and populated with Apex enemies or if there's room on an existing map, SE could make a significant addition of playable area then populate that space for those seeking Job Points.

Adding new apex enemy types isn't going to change it. Biggest issue in this game is your fighting the same thing from level 1 to level 119. Bats, crabs, worms etc. People will still flock to the weakest thing to kill for exp. Adding more bats, crabs, worms in other places in the game is the best and cheapest option. Its either that or start deleting all the apex bats,crabs,worms,toads or start randomizing their spawns to be any apex mob. Just like having a undead enemies just spawn in when it becomes night time. The key is to make it so any camp could be the best option but not for too long. This could even highly combat 3rd party tool exp farming. A hard enemy could spawn in its place where the program only option is to engage it or not and just stand there since its only programed to target Apex Bats etc.

Also remove Cap. point/exp chain campaigns. As it flocks these areas with players all at once trying to take advantage of a once in a few months perk. Just increase the overall cap. points from this point forward.

[Balduran]

In the Development Team Q&A I and others have promoted the proposal of expanding both the locations and variety of enemy types for Apex enemies. I am personally hoping for a minimum of 20 new locations and a minimum of 10 new Apex enemy types. If need be a whole new set of transporters could be placed into the game to allow players to access numerous freshly created area additions. Maps could be created and populated with Apex enemies or if there's room on an existing map, SE could make a significant addition of playable area then populate that space for those seeking Job Points.

I don't believe this is necessary because there is in fact an existing zone with hoards of Apex Monsters, I am talking about 99 Apex monsters of different types all wondering freely, in Ra'Kaznar Inner Court!

The bad news is the poor design of Apex monsters in Ra'Kaznar Inner Court zone terms of monster agro mechanics, and I'll explain why in my point of view.

Firstly, I will distinguish between the 2 types of usual 'monster luring' camps in job point parties in the current era.

Type A: Safe spot where the party can camp from a short distance to the apex pool and the lurer is able to pick up mobs with flash/provoke etc.

Examples of above style camps are available in Dho Gates crab room, Dho Gates crab/fish camp @H-10, Dho Gates Bat Camp at H-10/I-10.

Type B: Apex monsters do not agro, and therefore the party is able to stand in any spot they please within the apex pool.

Examples of above style camps are available in Woh Gates Apex Pugils/Apex Toads, Woh Gates Apex Toads, and Outer Ra'Kaznar Apex Bats, Outer Ra'Kaznar Apex Twitherym.

Now back to Ra'Kaznar Inner Court, unfortunately neither of the above styles can apply to any of the apex camps in this zone. There is absolutely no safe spot in that zone where a party can stand in the same place and continue to lure monsters from a safe distance, due to the fact that every 'safe spot' is occupied by Apex Umbrils or Apex Bhoots. Also all Apex monsters in Ra'Kaznar Inner Court hostile, so standing the middle of the camp is obviously out of the question.

So I really don't understand the logic behind implementing 99 Apex Monsters in a zone where there are unnecessary monsters placed in potential 'pulling zones' and at the same time making all monsters agro so you couldn't stand in the middle of the camp either. What is the point then?

These are the adversaries you can find in Ra'Kaznar Inner Court.

Apex Bats
Apex Bhoot
Apex Cyhiraeth
Apex Draugar
Apex Poxhound
Apex Umbril
Apex Vodoriga

I also want to point out that I have no objection at all with the mechanics of these monsters as some of them are quite nasty to fight (like the undead), but that just adds to the challenge and means you have to find the right setup and strategy to overcome them. The only real problem is these camps are totally unsuitable due to the horrible layout of the mobs.

Here what I think can be done to make this zone 'playable'.

- Change the hostility of the Apex Bats to be similar to the ones in Outer Ra'Kaznar where they aren't hostile.
- Remove or replace the position of the Apex Umbrils