Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12
  1. #1
    Player Sirmarki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,015
    Character
    Sirmarki
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99

    To Bug or not a bug?

    I posted this in October 2019 - "Accepted Bugs":
    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...ighlight=blist

    I posted this today - "Not a Bug Report"
    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...ast-100-Thanks

    Both posts are the same issue...

    So is it a bug? or not a bug? or is it 'not a bug' because somebody is already working on it?
    (0)

  2. #2
    Player Dragoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    1,544
    Character
    Dragoy
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 66

    €°(((><

    I imagine 'accepted bugs' are reports that those who wrangle them have sent up along the pipeline (meaning they're not yet confirmed issues).

    The new one does look more like a 'feature request' than a bug report on a first glance. Looking deeper, there is the template, so perhaps they either missed that, or figured it's working as intended (though perhaps said intent is now quite dated). The first report may have been reviewed by a different person, and a more appropriate place for the new one would have probably been 'duplicate bugs' (if it was a bug).

    Another possibility is, that they consider the fact that the command doesn't actually explain why it failed to add more names to the list to be a bug, while the limit is still okay to have (I don't need the feature myself (yay, Fenrir), but I do agree that it should be raised for those who do need it, along with other limits such as the maximum amount of PlayOnline messages stored etc.).

    Anyblue, just guessing here of course. ^^
    (1)
    Kind Regards,
    ~ The Noob Unlimited ~



    Sore wa sore, kore wa kore.

  3. #3
    Player Sirmarki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,015
    Character
    Sirmarki
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoy View Post
    I imagine 'accepted bugs' are reports that those who wrangle them have sent up along the pipeline (meaning they're not yet confirmed issues).
    I personally don't know of one chat medium that has a capped amount of people you can blacklist. Social media and anywhere there is the ability for people to discuss publicly should come with the ability to choose what you want to see, and what you don't want to see. Especially with an increasing amount of laws governing this.

    Today on Asura (once again) was a yell discussion that I don't want to see, yet I can't block it because my list is full, and turning yell off would also turn off any potential content creation that I may wish to join.

    At the end of the day, I pay a monthly subscription to be able to 'escape' in a fantasy world, unwind, turn off from politics, viruses, whatever..

    I don't want to have that in my face again when I logged into this.

    After all, the hint is in the name Final Fantasy XI™
    (0)
    Last edited by Sirmarki; 03-10-2020 at 09:41 AM.

  4. #4
    Player Dragoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    1,544
    Character
    Dragoy
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 66
    Yeah, the only reasons I can imagine for the limit, are ye olde PS2-limitations, and/or otherwise poorly implemented lists (PS2-limitations similarly to PlayOnline messages in that, the storage they had to consider client-side was pretty limited I guess, which nowadays shouldn't be an issue).

    I'm actually not even sure if the blacklist is stored client-side. I would guess it is, but if there's also a network related aspect to it, that could play into the issue as well (though similarly something that shouldn't be an issue these days).

    Depending on how the filtering is actually implemented, I can quite easily imagine a larger list affecting the performance of the client/chat log itself, though I'd definitely hope that to not be the case...

    Hmmm. All this makes me think of a special kind of a yell channel, a kind of a bulletin board if you will, for which players would only be able to use the auto-translator. It would definitely not make all the issues go away, but perhaps it would alleviate the problem at least a little bit.
    (1)
    Kind Regards,
    ~ The Noob Unlimited ~



    Sore wa sore, kore wa kore.

  5. #5
    Player Alhanelem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    7,092
    Character
    Tahngarthor
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Sirmarki View Post
    I posted this in October 2019 - "Accepted Bugs":
    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...ighlight=blist

    I posted this today - "Not a Bug Report"
    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...ast-100-Thanks

    Both posts are the same issue...

    So is it a bug? or not a bug? or is it 'not a bug' because somebody is already working on it?
    Accepted bugs means you filled out a properly formatted bug report and it will be looked at.

    Not a bug report means you didn't do that and it won't be looked at.

    That's all those two things mean. An accepted bug does not mean that they've confirmed your issue. It only means that you gave all the information requested for a bug report.
    (0)

  6. #6
    Player Sirmarki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,015
    Character
    Sirmarki
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Alhanelem View Post
    Accepted bugs means you filled out a properly formatted bug report and it will be looked at.

    Not a bug report means you didn't do that and it won't be looked at.

    That's all those two things mean. An accepted bug does not mean that they've confirmed your issue. It only means that you gave all the information requested for a bug report.
    So what would you class a limit off 100 on the blacklist as? When you wish to block more people.
    A bug, or something I should just accept?
    (0)

    Sirmarki, ex-Fenrir, a young warrior, in the heyday.

  7. #7
    Player Alhanelem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    7,092
    Character
    Tahngarthor
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Sirmarki View Post
    So what would you class a limit off 100 on the blacklist as? When you wish to block more people.
    A bug, or something I should just accept?
    That would be a feature request, not a bug. That is the limit of the black list. It's not a malfunction. A bug is something that isn't working the way it was designed. That 100 blacklist limit is by design.

    You can certainly post a thread in general or one of the game system sections with feedback on this to see if they can consider increasing it. But it isn't a bug and would get moved to "Working as Intended" if posted as such.

    I would like to add you should just delete the oldest names from your blacklist. I.e. players that don't play anymore and previous RMT you've blocked, becuase they get deleted/banned and make new accounts constantly. FFXIV has a similar limit, and I reserve the blacklist for actual players that I don't want to interact with, rather than RMT, which I just right click > report and move on.

    (Or move to a smaller server which will have far less RMT, cheating, etc.)
    (0)
    Last edited by Alhanelem; 03-13-2020 at 01:49 PM.

  8. #8
    Player Sirmarki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,015
    Character
    Sirmarki
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Alhanelem View Post
    That would be a feature request, not a bug. That is the limit of the black list. It's not a malfunction. A bug is something that isn't working the way it was designed. That 100 blacklist limit is by design.
    Not really a feature request. With an increasing amount of laws governing online trolls (that the social media companies have also had to adapt to) - There should be no limits on what you wish to see and what you don't wish to see in any chat medium.
    This is a 12 rated game at the end of the day... (PEGI).

    I manage a large website with a very large SQL database, and increasing a cap limit of 100 to say 999 or unlimited is not a time consuming task (I'm assuming this game is built on SQL).

    I just want to play without having to read about US politics, viruses, flaming, trolls. Some days there is a lot of content creating activity in /yell so I like to keep an eye open. I want to block the people I consider an irritation to myself... It is really not that much to ask in my opinion.
    (0)
    Last edited by Sirmarki; 03-13-2020 at 10:16 PM.

    Sirmarki, ex-Fenrir, a young warrior, in the heyday.

  9. #9
    Player Alhanelem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    7,092
    Character
    Tahngarthor
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Sirmarki View Post
    Not really a feature request. With an increasing amount of laws governing online trolls (that the social media companies have also had to adapt to) - There should be no limits on what you wish to see and what you don't wish to see in any chat medium.
    This is a 12 rated game at the end of the day... (PEGI).

    I manage a large website with a very large SQL database, and increasing a cap limit of 100 to say 999 or unlimited is not a time consuming task (I'm assuming this game is built on SQL).

    I just want to play without having to read about US politics, viruses, flaming, trolls. Some days there is a lot of content creating activity in /yell so I like to keep an eye open. I want to block the people I consider an irritation to myself... It is really not that much to ask in my opinion.
    Then I guess they have to shut the game down, because it's a technical limit.

    More seriously, it is a feature request. The Blacklist is working as intended. Feel free to make a lawsuit but good luck getting anything to come out of it. Your local laws don't make it not a feature request, because it isn't a malfunction. Bad design, possibly, but not a malfunction.

    You still have the ability to do something about it, i.e. report the infringing users. But at least in the US, and probably Japan, what people say and do within a private service is up to the operator of that service. People often cite "FREE SPEECH!" on forums like this, and in games, but since its a private service, they can suspend/ban you for breaking chat rules. And by the way, that's what you should do. If you don't like what someone's saying, ask them to stop. You would have more of a case if they were actually harassing you vs just saying stuff that doesn't interest you. Given that I don't know anyone else in the game who has hit this limit, I think you should consider asking yourself why you've blacklisted so many people.

    Computer systems, data structres, etc. do not have infinite capacity. That black list has to be retrieved and loaded every time you zone since it's stored on the server. Since it's stored on the server, the size of the blacklist affects the amount of data that has to be sent, and the packets for the game are limited in size. Increasing this limit, even if it's possible, would increase server stress. This is a big reason a lot of features have various limits in MMOs.There is a lot of give and take with the data structure of a packet, and since this game was built for dial-up, the packet size is small compared to games today and this is why limits like these exist. It's not because they don't want you to have more, its because it's a limitation of the system. You cite database knowledge, but this in fact isn't a database issue. This game is also very old so you can't make assumptions about its design that you would make with games made today.


    Keep in mind: SE would sooner stop doing business in your country than deal with the legal ramifications of whatever law you're talking about, so if you sued them, the end result would most likely be you're not allowed to play the game anymore. Is that really preferable to just managing your list? Frankly, and this is just my opinion, but if you can fill that blacklist with 100 people that are all still actively playing the game, then it seems to me like it's possible that you might not be making the best decisions in game causing you to get into scuffles more than most people do.

    For RMT specifically though: There is no value in using blacklist space on this. Those characters are deleted and recreated on a regular basis. Even if you blacklist them, they will just be born again on a new name. It is impossible for SE to suppress RMT completely, and you just have to accept that. Delete old names from your blacklist. If they reappear and bother you again, then put them back on, but if you have a full blacklist, I guarantee you can delete about half of it without seeing measurably more chat reappear. The blacklist is not your only tool for controlling what chat you see.

    My blacklist has 4 names on it. Pretty sure 3 of them haven't been on the game in at least a decade. Maybe stop being so sensitive to all the chat going on around you instead of demanding that SE and your government shelter you from everything?

    As a game developer of sorts myself, I'm just going to tell you straight up, I'm not going to release my game in a country that demands that I be a nanny to fully grown adults (Children are a different matter entirely of course). I just mentally ignore people who irritate me. If they're in a linkshell, I just turn the linkshell off for a while. You have other options. SE has no legal obligation to increase the blacklist limit for you.


    This is a 12 rated game at the end of the day... (PEGI).
    SE doesn't knowingly allow people under the age of 13 to create accounts, in part because of the US Children's Online Privacy Protection Act (COPPA), which requires parents to take responsibility for these people and create accounts on their behalf.

    Finally: SE actually already no longer officially supports Europe in the game. While you can still create accounts, they aren't officially operating the game in your region.

    This has been fun but really, you do not have a case, because while there is a blacklist limit, everyone has the same limit. Everyone has the same tools for controlling chat.
    (0)
    Last edited by Alhanelem; 03-19-2020 at 01:25 PM.

  10. #10
    Player Sirmarki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,015
    Character
    Sirmarki
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Alhanelem View Post
    This has been fun but really, you do not have a case, because while there is a blacklist limit, everyone has the same limit. Everyone has the same tools for controlling chat.
    Ok, well, that was long and a tad extreme. I'm not suing anybody, I'm making a suggestion on behalf of people who want to add more people to the blacklist.
    Most forums in the world have moderation and rules regarding any range of subjects, otherwise is just becomes a free-for-all normally resulting in flaming, anger, and argument and spirals out of control.

    I'm sure, as with most people, I don't want to see a conversation about US politics, because quite frankly, I and others do not care, and a lot of people find it stressful.

    Firstly, yes, companies if selling a product in that country do have to abide by local laws. Look at GDPR as an example (EU) the US, as an example, has to abide by that if dealing with EU customers otherwise they would lose millions and millions of customers. We live in a global market.

    This drives me nuts.... Europe isn't one thing... Europe is made of many different countries, with different laws. The EU, and other countries not in the EU (such as me, in the UK).
    (0)
    Last edited by Sirmarki; 03-19-2020 at 10:44 PM.

    Sirmarki, ex-Fenrir, a young warrior, in the heyday.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast