To Bug or not a bug?

[Alhanelem]

I posted this in October 2019 - "Accepted Bugs":
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...ighlight=blist

I posted this today - "Not a Bug Report"
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...ast-100-Thanks

Both posts are the same issue...

So is it a bug? or not a bug? or is it 'not a bug' because somebody is already working on it?

Accepted bugs means you filled out a properly formatted bug report and it will be looked at.

Not a bug report means you didn't do that and it won't be looked at.

That's all those two things mean. An accepted bug does not mean that they've confirmed your issue. It only means that you gave all the information requested for a bug report.

[Sirmarki]

Accepted bugs means you filled out a properly formatted bug report and it will be looked at.

Not a bug report means you didn't do that and it won't be looked at.

That's all those two things mean. An accepted bug does not mean that they've confirmed your issue. It only means that you gave all the information requested for a bug report.

So what would you class a limit off 100 on the blacklist as? When you wish to block more people.
A bug, or something I should just accept?

[Alhanelem]

So what would you class a limit off 100 on the blacklist as? When you wish to block more people.
A bug, or something I should just accept?

That would be a feature request, not a bug. That is the limit of the black list. It's not a malfunction. A bug is something that isn't working the way it was designed. That 100 blacklist limit is by design.

You can certainly post a thread in general or one of the game system sections with feedback on this to see if they can consider increasing it. But it isn't a bug and would get moved to "Working as Intended" if posted as such.

I would like to add you should just delete the oldest names from your blacklist. I.e. players that don't play anymore and previous RMT you've blocked, becuase they get deleted/banned and make new accounts constantly. FFXIV has a similar limit, and I reserve the blacklist for actual players that I don't want to interact with, rather than RMT, which I just right click > report and move on.

(Or move to a smaller server which will have far less RMT, cheating, etc.)

[Sirmarki]

That would be a feature request, not a bug. That is the limit of the black list. It's not a malfunction. A bug is something that isn't working the way it was designed. That 100 blacklist limit is by design.

Not really a feature request. With an increasing amount of laws governing online trolls (that the social media companies have also had to adapt to) - There should be no limits on what you wish to see and what you don't wish to see in any chat medium.
This is a 12 rated game at the end of the day... (PEGI).

I manage a large website with a very large SQL database, and increasing a cap limit of 100 to say 999 or unlimited is not a time consuming task (I'm assuming this game is built on SQL).

I just want to play without having to read about US politics, viruses, flaming, trolls. Some days there is a lot of content creating activity in /yell so I like to keep an eye open. I want to block the people I consider an irritation to myself... It is really not that much to ask in my opinion.

[Alhanelem]

Not really a feature request. With an increasing amount of laws governing online trolls (that the social media companies have also had to adapt to) - There should be no limits on what you wish to see and what you don't wish to see in any chat medium.
This is a 12 rated game at the end of the day... (PEGI).

I manage a large website with a very large SQL database, and increasing a cap limit of 100 to say 999 or unlimited is not a time consuming task (I'm assuming this game is built on SQL).

I just want to play without having to read about US politics, viruses, flaming, trolls. Some days there is a lot of content creating activity in /yell so I like to keep an eye open. I want to block the people I consider an irritation to myself... It is really not that much to ask in my opinion.

Then I guess they have to shut the game down, because it's a technical limit.

More seriously, it is a feature request. The Blacklist is working as intended. Feel free to make a lawsuit but good luck getting anything to come out of it. Your local laws don't make it not a feature request, because it isn't a malfunction. Bad design, possibly, but not a malfunction.

You still have the ability to do something about it, i.e. report the infringing users. But at least in the US, and probably Japan, what people say and do within a private service is up to the operator of that service. People often cite "FREE SPEECH!" on forums like this, and in games, but since its a private service, they can suspend/ban you for breaking chat rules. And by the way, that's what you should do. If you don't like what someone's saying, ask them to stop. You would have more of a case if they were actually harassing you vs just saying stuff that doesn't interest you. Given that I don't know anyone else in the game who has hit this limit, I think you should consider asking yourself why you've blacklisted so many people.

Computer systems, data structres, etc. do not have infinite capacity. That black list has to be retrieved and loaded every time you zone since it's stored on the server. Since it's stored on the server, the size of the blacklist affects the amount of data that has to be sent, and the packets for the game are limited in size. Increasing this limit, even if it's possible, would increase server stress. This is a big reason a lot of features have various limits in MMOs.There is a lot of give and take with the data structure of a packet, and since this game was built for dial-up, the packet size is small compared to games today and this is why limits like these exist. It's not because they don't want you to have more, its because it's a limitation of the system. You cite database knowledge, but this in fact isn't a database issue. This game is also very old so you can't make assumptions about its design that you would make with games made today.


Keep in mind: SE would sooner stop doing business in your country than deal with the legal ramifications of whatever law you're talking about, so if you sued them, the end result would most likely be you're not allowed to play the game anymore. Is that really preferable to just managing your list? Frankly, and this is just my opinion, but if you can fill that blacklist with 100 people that are all still actively playing the game, then it seems to me like it's possible that you might not be making the best decisions in game causing you to get into scuffles more than most people do.

For RMT specifically though: There is no value in using blacklist space on this. Those characters are deleted and recreated on a regular basis. Even if you blacklist them, they will just be born again on a new name. It is impossible for SE to suppress RMT completely, and you just have to accept that. Delete old names from your blacklist. If they reappear and bother you again, then put them back on, but if you have a full blacklist, I guarantee you can delete about half of it without seeing measurably more chat reappear. The blacklist is not your only tool for controlling what chat you see.

My blacklist has 4 names on it. Pretty sure 3 of them haven't been on the game in at least a decade. Maybe stop being so sensitive to all the chat going on around you instead of demanding that SE and your government shelter you from everything?

As a game developer of sorts myself, I'm just going to tell you straight up, I'm not going to release my game in a country that demands that I be a nanny to fully grown adults (Children are a different matter entirely of course). I just mentally ignore people who irritate me. If they're in a linkshell, I just turn the linkshell off for a while. You have other options. SE has no legal obligation to increase the blacklist limit for you.

This is a 12 rated game at the end of the day... (PEGI).

SE doesn't knowingly allow people under the age of 13 to create accounts, in part because of the US Children's Online Privacy Protection Act (COPPA), which requires parents to take responsibility for these people and create accounts on their behalf.

Finally: SE actually already no longer officially supports Europe in the game. While you can still create accounts, they aren't officially operating the game in your region.

This has been fun but really, you do not have a case, because while there is a blacklist limit, everyone has the same limit. Everyone has the same tools for controlling chat.

[Sirmarki]

This has been fun but really, you do not have a case, because while there is a blacklist limit, everyone has the same limit. Everyone has the same tools for controlling chat.

Ok, well, that was long and a tad extreme. I'm not suing anybody, I'm making a suggestion on behalf of people who want to add more people to the blacklist.
Most forums in the world have moderation and rules regarding any range of subjects, otherwise is just becomes a free-for-all normally resulting in flaming, anger, and argument and spirals out of control.

I'm sure, as with most people, I don't want to see a conversation about US politics, because quite frankly, I and others do not care, and a lot of people find it stressful.

Firstly, yes, companies if selling a product in that country do have to abide by local laws. Look at GDPR as an example (EU) the US, as an example, has to abide by that if dealing with EU customers otherwise they would lose millions and millions of customers. We live in a global market.

This drives me nuts.... Europe isn't one thing... Europe is made of many different countries, with different laws. The EU, and other countries not in the EU (such as me, in the UK).

[Alhanelem]

Ok, well, that was long and a tad extreme. I'm not suing anybody, I'm making a suggestion on behalf of people who want to add more people to the blacklist.
Most forums in the world have moderation and rules regarding any range of subjects, otherwise is just becomes a free-for-all normally resulting in flaming, anger, and argument and spirals out of control.

I'm sure, as with most people, I don't want to see a conversation about US politics, because quite frankly, I and others do not care, and a lot of people find it stressful.

Firstly, yes, companies if selling a product in that country do have to abide by local laws. Look at GDPR as an example (EU) the US, as an example, has to abide by that if dealing with EU customers otherwise they would lose millions and millions of customers. We live in a global market.

This drives me nuts.... Europe isn't one thing... Europe is made of many different countries, with different laws. The EU, and other countries not in the EU (such as me, in the UK).

I'm sorry, it's just that it frustrates me how much power the EU has to influence businesses in other countries- because big companies like google etc do a lot of business and make money in EU countries, even though they are a US company and don't (They do not- they just have to accept that they can't do business in those countries otherwise. You can't extradite a company- and threats of fines have no force in another country) have to comply with EU laws, they roll over and do so anyway because they don't want to lose that business (But it's different for SE because the EU playerbase for this game is so small).

At any rate, as I said, of the 100 people on your blacklist, odds are there are some who haven't played in a long time or are unlikely to continue bothering you today.

I agree that political talk and stuff can get really annoying. But usually this happens in linkshells, so you can easily mute that by turning that linkshell off for a while. It's really a lot easier than adding everyone involved to your blacklist. I only use the blacklist for people who really wronged me in some way and I don't want to deal with them for an extended timeframe. I don't just use it to silence one conversation. Even then, I'm a believer in second chances, so in most cases, I will remove them some time down the road.

If I make a website and collect user information, I have to do so according to the guidelines and laws for doing so in my country. I don't have to follow your country's laws if they are different, but then that country can choose to block my website in that country.