General Musings on Community and Causality

[Meyi]

should i be cock blocked from getting semi good gear on 19 job because i have 19 jobs?

No. And technically you're not cock blocked. There is no limit as to how many magians you can complete.

I personally do not care for the staff trails I do not have the time to invest in them, and in abyssea if you are using potency atma you do not have a big difference vs HQ staffs because people reported potency atma is added with the magins and multiplied outside with HQ ele staffs. I can understand not having best of the best on all jobs ( like all emp weapons) but common staffs? Give me a brake -.-. the space issue is big too I DO NOT have the space to replace 8 staffs with 27 weapons atm.

Okay? So then don't do them. Or better yet, stop looking at them all as an overwhelming project. Instead, look at them as a trial by trial basis, and you'll feel better.

I agree wholeheartedly on the too much space issue. I do hope that Square Enix will either make Prism final staves (which require all of the staves in their final product to fuse together) for every element mushed together, or allow us to fuse every staff with the same name. (Ex. Varuna's Staff +2 with Magic Acc+1, Magic Att.+5, Fast Cast-12% + Magic Acc. +5, Magic Att.+1, Fast Cast-12% + Avatar Perpept. -6, Blood Pact Delay -10 = Varuna's Staff +2 with Magic Acc. +5, Magic Att. +5, Avatar Perpept-6, Blood Pact Delay -10, Fast Cast +12%.)

they are fine if you only have 1 or 2 90s to work on, not 19.

Maybe. But you have choice over how many jobs you level and how well you make them.

On my Elvaan I had 7 jobs at max level. I know 7 isn't nearly as much as 19, but I understand the frustration. I was planning on making magians for all of the jobs, but I later retired the character when I was nearly finished with THF daggers.

As for my Taru, I've only leveled BLM and WHM so far and want to level SMN. Even imagining 16 magians to do is a nightmare. So instead I just focus on one staff at a time.

I think the biggest nightmare for magian weapons is imagining the 95 and 99 cap increase; those will be new magians to add to our weapons. So even if you finish a weapon now, it's not 100% complete; there will be two trials to add on at a later date.

they toned down the weather, i do not see weather much of an issue past some specific trails ( marbol in wind, fire in general, so on)

I hate it. I hate standing around for an hour waiting for weather to pop and being forced to stay glued to the screen without anything enjoyable to involve myself in.

I also dispise waiting for a Vana'diel day, but at least for me, I have the ability to wait for most days. I feel sorry for other people who have busy lives (two jobs, full time student, children, etc etc).

I agree it is a good system but some things is too much, esp after the relic change there should be no reason for paths like this:

400 Plantoids > Trial 653: 300 Ladybugs > Kurodachi Trial 655: 500 Beast > Trial 656: 600 Aquan > Trial 657: 400 Gnats> Trial 1559: 600 Demons > Trial 1560: 450 Qiqirn> Trial 2120: 700 Aquans> and unlisted one is 700 birds.

Really? I personally prefer those kinds of trials. You can go out at any time of the day, for as long as you want, and just grind through them. You don't have any death requirements (such as kill with 250+ ice damage, a WS, a pet, etc) and you can team up with other people on the trial.

Heck, you could even just go do 20 a day. At least every monster you kill on that trial, you are guaranteed 1 step closer to a completed, awesome weapon.

[Rambus]

No. And technically you're not cock blocked. There is no limit as to how many magians you can complete.

was speaking of time, i can only sit down and play for only so long. name o0f thread:
General Musings on Community and Causality

[Meyi]

was speaking of time, i can only sit down and play for only so long. name o0f thread:
General Musings on Community and Causality

That's why those trials are best for you.

Kill one monster. Lay down. Come back when you feel better, kill a couple more, lay down some more.

Really, Magian Weapon builds and crafting are the only things you can do in this game for incredibly short periods of time. Everything else (partying, Abyssea, HNMLS events, Dynamis, Limbus, Salvage, Skilling Up, etc) requires much more time.

[Ravenmore]

Little nitpic marbol in wind is easy. Out side of whitegate in spring and summor wind is up almost every game day and there is 4 pops close to each other. Kill 2 then run over to the other 2 kill them and the other 2 should be back up. Now puks on windsday are a PITA.

[Lexin]

TotM I don't like but whatever I get over it.

Now the only way to augment my older gear is through synergy only is just plain BS! I have not even touched synergy and never plan to.

[Rambus]

I get your point meyi Ill try harder, but I will like to backstop a bit

When relics had their 1000 or 2000 kills per trails these oat and ws ones had the same amounts right? (I do not know I did not have a big interest back then) I know they lowered some elemental ones too. What I do not get now is why these ws ones and OaT trails have more kill shots then relics/mythics now. That is my only concern that i find strange. If SE don't want to change it that’s fine it is just I do not get that inconsistency.

[Meyi]

I get your point meyi Ill try harder, but I will like to backstop a bit

-smiles- Just do what you can, when you can, and when you want to. It's a game, it's meant to be fun!

Hell, I went years without joining HNMLSes and getting all the "best" gear. I found the drama and demands too depressing to put up with. Naturally, this means I don't care if people have "the best" or not, magians included. I do them because they're exactly my kind of play style.

When relics had their 1000 or 2000 kills per trails these oat and ws ones had the same amounts right? (I do not know I did not have a big interest back then) I know they lowered some elemental ones too. What I do not get now is why these ws ones and OaT trails have more kill shots then relics/mythics now. That is my only concern that i find strange. If SE don't want to change it that’s fine it is just I do not get that inconsistency.

1k+ is just ridiculous. Anything over 500 is ridiculous. I personally think all trials should have a maximum cap of 200. What was even more repulsing was that relics and mythics took forever to make, just for the base. Add on top of that they had the most grueling trials (in numbers and in requirements), and to add salt to the wound, were not as effective as Empyrean Magian Weapons. I'm thankful they reduced relic and mythic numbers to a slightly more reasonable number.

[Rambus]

yeah like to point back to this:

400 Plantoids > Trial 653: 300 Ladybugs > Kurodachi Trial 655: 500 Beast > Trial 656: 600 Aquan > Trial 657: 400 Gnats> Trial 1559: 600 Demons > Trial 1560: 450 Qiqirn> Trial 2120: 700 Aquans> and unlisted one is 700 birds.

now i read the chart wrong at first i thought mine would be the drop ones. wiki does not list the 90 ( remember when you said you did not see the 700 birds?) that is because it only goes up to the 85 version, the 85>90 is 700 birds.

Now i did the relic trails refind, 400 mobs average. but the thing is those mobs people killed a lot, like crabs, so i was killing with people. When you have crap like 600 demons, 450 qiqrin seems unattainable. ill try it do what i can but dang i did not notice that when i picked up the weapon. to add more problems doing aot paths causes you to use a weak weapon. the plantod phase turned my 67 D weapon (w/e it was) now to D40, at the demon stage ill be using a weak AoT twice weapon.

be easier for me cuz of my bow of course and i know most oat are looked down on and meant more as a toy weapon but gee they should lower requirement for those. Same for ws ones, some are use 800 ws on xxx mob.

[Seriha]

Okay? So then don't do them. Or better yet, stop looking at them all as an overwhelming project. Instead, look at them as a trial by trial basis, and you'll feel better.

Unfortunately, most weapons simply AREN'T worth looking at until a certain phase in the process, and as noted above, sometimes they get prematurely nerfed for no logical reason before reaching that phase of usefulness. I believe I mentioned scythe earlier, but let me expand on this. When you complete the initial 3 NMs for the physical paths, you're left with a D79 weapon. Not unreasonable for a 75, though there's certainly better. If going for multi-hitters, you're then tasked to kill 400 Arcana. When that's done, you're graced D45 weapon with 518 delay. That's it. From there, it's 400 Hippogryphs, 500 Amorphs, 600 Plantoids, and 400 Peistes before FINALLY this piddly POS weapon gets the ability to attack twice with 10 more delay tacked on. From there, it's 600 dragons (+1 DMG), 450 buffalo (2-3x after, +2 DMG), 700 arcana (D56, 2-3x), and 700 lizards (D56, 2-4x).

To be honest, the points where this weapon can attack 2-3x is rather short. I'd argue the ability to attack 2x should've been possible after the Hippogryph trials (though it obviously would've been helpful beforehand, as much as a PITA these mobs are). Your best bet for tackling the next two phases is level sync to someone who's 10 and just have them AFK follow you as you kill worms and mandragora in the past zones, as otherwise you'll be fighting level 56+ mobs with the equivalent of a level 29ish weapon (Frostreaper is L27 with D42 while Merc. Captain Scythe is L30 with D51.). To be honest, this isn't much different than just multiplying the needed kills by 1.5x if you're solo with a more appropriate weapon. Other two-handed weapons go through similar pains, but their one-handed brethren aren't nearly as crippled, and in some cases can completely work around the weapon's damage by off-handing it or having things like a RDM with nukes or BLU and their spells. Either way, the 2-3x could've come after the Peiste phase (At least you'd be able to kill these 1.4x quicker), then the 2-4x once you're on Maleficence.

Excluding the intro NMs, it's 4650 kills to complete this weapon over 12 trials (including NMs), averaging 388 kills per (517 without NMs). Functioning under the assumption of a minute per pull/kill solo, you're looking at 77.5 hours just on the grinding, maybe another 12 hours tacked on from the NM phases, give or take their pop stubbornness. Is nearly 90 man hours worth a 2-4x scythe? Indeed, we know helpers will cut down on this time, but help should never be expected or assumed guaranteed. For someone who plays roughly 2 hours a day, this will mean 45 days to make their weapon if it's all they do from start to finish. Does that sound like a fun game to you? Now, imagine if you have multiple jobs...

In part, this is where the mercy of alternative weapons could come into play, but we all know those will eventually be outdated while magian items, already the superior in a lot of cases, will only continue to grow with no guarantee that another bridge weapon will be added. The level 85 cap actually sucked pretty bad in this respect, but 90 at least brought some new synths of ~87 stuff and the job-specific weapons of varying quality. On some level, it makes me think SE is aware of the grind issue, but instead of fixing it, they just gave us those instead while forgetting the playerbase is often hyper-critical about not partying with "the best" at any given time.

[Meyi]

Excluding the intro NMs, it's 4650 kills to complete this weapon over 12 trials (including NMs), averaging 388 kills per (517 without NMs). Functioning under the assumption of a minute per pull/kill solo, you're looking at 77.5 hours just on the grinding, maybe another 12 hours tacked on from the NM phases, give or take their pop stubbornness. Is nearly 90 man hours worth a 2-4x scythe? Indeed, we know helpers will cut down on this time, but help should never be expected or assumed guaranteed. For someone who plays roughly 2 hours a day, this will mean 45 days to make their weapon if it's all they do from start to finish. Does that sound like a fun game to you? Now, imagine if you have multiple jobs...

Well, I really don't think it'd take that long to complete. But let's assume it takes 77.5 hours to complete. And let's break it down into 2 hours a day (approximately 39 days). That's slightly over a month. 39 days, decent play, for a superior weapon that's guaranteed as long as you do the work sounds pretty reasonable to me.

How many of us went months or years before we finally got armor we were after? Salvage? Dynamis? And no matter how much time you spent in Salvage or Dynamis (or a HNMLS), you were never guaranteed a final product in the end.

With Magians, you are.

I don't think the exact trials are enjoyable, and like I said before, I think there should be a maximum of 200 monsters required for any one trial. The enjoyment, for me, is the hard work and the guaranteed reward for said hard work.

As far as I'm aware, I think most jobs only need about 1~2 Magian Weapons? So even if you have multiple jobs, it shouldn't be much of an issue.

The jobs I can think of that need large amounts of magian weapons are BLM, RDM, SCH, and SMN.

In part, this is where the mercy of alternative weapons could come into play, but we all know those will eventually be outdated while magian items, already the superior in a lot of cases, will only continue to grow with no guarantee that another bridge weapon will be added. The level 85 cap actually sucked pretty bad in this respect, but 90 at least brought some new synths of ~87 stuff and the job-specific weapons of varying quality. On some level, it makes me think SE is aware of the grind issue, but instead of fixing it, they just gave us those instead while forgetting the playerbase is often hyper-critical about not partying with "the best" at any given time.

Why shouldn't the magians be superior? If people put in the time and energy into making something, I think it deserves more power than an item that doesn't.