A Ninja without Throwing...

[Bulrogg]

While I am not against fixing throwing, a lot of our ideas are just not good enough. But why just leave it up to us... why can't we in agreement say "Hey SE may we have throwing fixed without nerfing NIN and putting RNG out of a job?" and see what they come up with?

[Akujima]

While I am not against fixing throwing, a lot of our ideas are just not good enough. But why just leave it up to us... why can't we in agreement say "Hey SE may we have throwing fixed without nerfing NIN and putting RNG out of a job?" and see what they come up with?

Exact same thing I was thinking.

But, they seem to think we're on SE's payroll, either that or they just expect us to sit there all day and run the numbers. And even then if we did come up with a workable solution, the expected response is just "ehhh... It's too difficult. Just forget about it and boost Dual Wield some more or somethin...".

So, it's probably best to just leave it up to them. They seem to be willing to do everything for free AND pay SE $12.95/month.

No wonder they're "The Best" at the game. They help design the freaken mechanics! lol...

[Shoko]

While I am not against fixing throwing, a lot of our ideas are just not good enough. But why just leave it up to us... why can't we in agreement say "Hey SE may we have throwing fixed without nerfing NIN and putting RNG out of a job?" and see what they come up with?

Can never put RNG out of a job if they fixed throwing. Also my idea would simply be to tack on an extremely high D to a shuriken for a "fix" or w/e. like D120~130 should be a good starter.

[Bulrogg]

Can never put RNG out of a job if they fixed throwing.

Might want to tell the others that because they keep saying the only way that throwing could be fixed would nerf ninja melee DMG and also break the other jobs. I don't see RNG and BLM being put out of a job thought even if throwing was adjusted/fixed.

[Greatguardian]

Might want to tell the others that because they keep saying the only way that throwing could be fixed would nerf ninja melee DMG and also break the other jobs. I don't see RNG and BLM being put out of a job thought even if throwing was adjusted/fixed.

Ranged Attacks will never be "awesome" because of the required innate delay in aiming and putting away a Ranged weapon. This especially harms Low Delay Ranged Weapons (uh, hi Shuriken) because the required innate delay is a larger proportion of the total Ranged Attack Delay.

The only viable fixes for Throwing itself (eg, not counting Throwing Attacks) would pretty much have to come in the form of either:

A) Fulltime Quintuple Throw, similar to Triple/Double Shot. Granted, this will be expensive as all hell to maintain (and rightly should be). I would not mind new Shuriken. But I'd like them to stack to 99, and not require Campaign Union spoils to craft. I rightly expect to be paying like 50k/99 though, or 600k for a stack of "Shuriken... Bags...". That's perfectly fine as long as the supply is stable enough for people to actually find them in stock.

or B) Entirely new Ranged attack mechanics for the game. This will probably never happen, and if it did it would most definitely break Ranger. This is what people are talking about.

[Karbuncle]

Can never put RNG out of a job if they fixed throwing. Also my idea would simply be to tack on an extremely high D to a shuriken for a "fix" or w/e. like D120~130 should be a good starter.

120~130 DMG Shuriken would still massively gimp your melee damage. The idea (in spirit of the OP) was to make Throwing tangible as a form of damage during combat.

But sadly, With a Ninja's natural Dual wield, and haste gear, They attack quite often. So even if the Shuriken had a delay of 10, theres a "2 second" universal action window that delays your attacks. Meaning for 2 seconds after you hit "Ranged attack" no other attacks/r.atks can be preformed, (or job abilities/WS) If you're on RNG, you notice this having to wait a while after the Animation for ranged attack goes off in order to preform a WS or use a Job Ability, Yes?

So a D:120 Shuriken would only do ~300 DMG inside Abyssea(stretching it), and during which, You've lose 1 Attack round, which inside abyssea is at least 500-600 Damage or more depending on Crits/Double/triple attacks. Thats where the "Makin RNG obsolete or nerfing NIN's Dual Wield" comes from. the Shuriken itself would have to deal over ~800 damage to make up for the damage lost from the 2-sec universal delay, and the Ranged-Attack Animation (assuming it gets another ~120 delay like other Shuriken).

This is all of course assuming those who want a fix to Throwing are asking for ways to use it more and maintain their damage.

Another Solution would be to have Shuriken give a large amount of TP. Could give a "Shuriken TP Bonus" Job Trait that, instead of giving Store-TP to shuriken, Boosts TP Gained by Shuriken per level. I.E

Shuriken give ~6TP.

Lv. 10
戦術的な - 手裏剣 - Raises TP gained from Thrown Attacks.
(Tactical Shuriken)

Up to...

Lv.90
Tactical Shurikan V

Which, Each trait would give an additional 6TP per Shuriken, for a total of 36 TP per Shuriken, So while the Damage would not be made up, it would give a large bonus to TP, meaning your WS-Phase damage would get a boost.

this would work well with the level 85~95 Shuriken. It wouldn't make up the damage, but maybe just maybe it would make up for it in WS-phase Damage. I'll leave it up to Wish/GG

[wish12oz]

for a total of 36 TP per Shuriken, So while the Damage would not be made up, it would give a large bonus to TP, meaning your WS-Phase damage would get a boost.

Shurikens need to do just over 6 melee attacks worth of damage and tp gain to stay on par with just meleeing. (see earlier in the thread) More then this if they are to be better and useful and worth buying and losing inventory/gil for. Your idea would fix the TP gain, but not the damage, around 36 tp per shuriken only the TP is keeping up, and it's not increasing WS frequency. This plus like 700 base damage shurikens would be required with current game mechanics, maybe more, I'm not going to do the math to say exactly what it is, but rest assured 700 is low balling it.

[Karbuncle]

Shurikens need to do just over 6 melee attacks worth of damage and tp gain to stay on par with just meleeing. (see earlier in the thread) More then this if they are to be better and useful and worth buying and losing inventory/gil for. Your idea would fix the TP gain, but not the damage, around 36 tp per shuriken only the TP is keeping up, and it's not increasing WS frequency. This plus like 700 base damage shurikens would be required with current game mechanics, maybe more, I'm not going to do the math to say exactly what it is, but rest assured 700 is low balling it.

Sometimes i forget how beast NIN is :|

Hmmm, Well there goes that idea too. I'm trying not to break the game when i do this, But lets see. Maybe starting at level 10, NIN could get a Shuriken Mastery type Job Trait. Each level would do something like this.

Lv.15 *Increases TP Gain, R.acc, Critical hit rate/damage, Reduces Delay, and Increases Damage of Shurikens
lv. 30
lv. 45
lv. 60
lv. 75
lv. 90

VI Tiers.
*Shuriken Damage: Increases Damage based on your level (your level x1.5) I.E if you're level 40, it adds 60DMG to your shuriken. level 90 adds 135.
*Delay Reduction. Starts at 10%, increases relative to Dual wield.
*Increases Critical hit rate by 5%, Damage by 5% per level. total 30% Each.
*Ranged accuracy: increases R.acc by 5 each tier (total 30)
*Increases TP Gained per shuriken by 7 Each level (Total 48TP Per Shuriken)

This is breaking the game in my eyes, and even i think it wouldn't be enough.

[Karbuncle]

Sometimes i forget how beast NIN is :|

Hmmm, Well there goes that idea too. I'm trying not to break the game when i do this, But lets see. Maybe starting at level 10, NIN could get a Shuriken Mastery type Job Trait. Each level would do something like this.

Lv.15 *Increases TP Gain, R.acc, Critical hit rate/damage, Reduces Delay, and Increases Damage of Shurikens
lv. 30
lv. 45
lv. 60
lv. 75
lv. 90

VI Tiers.
*Shuriken Damage: Increases Damage based on your level (your level x1.5) I.E if you're level 40, it adds 60DMG to your shuriken. level 90 adds 135.
*Delay Reduction. Starts at 10%, increases relative to Dual wield.
*Increases Critical hit rate by 5%, Damage by 5% per level. total 30% Each.
*Ranged accuracy: increases R.acc by 5 each tier (total 30)
*Increases TP Gained per shuriken by 7 Each level (Total 48TP Per Shuriken)

This is breaking the game in my eyes, and even i think it wouldn't be enough.

Wish, I brought this up before Aku's last post. Look at this, How do you think it would fair?

Also, Take into account You could just take advantage of this every ~5 minutes with Sange. IT wouldn't make throwing useful entirely, But if this trait was introduced, and You could use it with Sange, It'd make throwing useful every 5~20 minutes. yes? (I forget Sange's recast, I know its something super-retardedly large without 5/5 merits)

Could get ~250TP Per Sange with that update depending on Shadows. Also

忠実な忍 - Lv. 80 Job Trait.
(Loyal shinobi)
*Augments Sange. Enhances Sange.

*Enhances - No longer Absorbs Shadows
*Augments - Gives Sange 50% Chance to "Rapid Shot"