A Ninja without Throwing...

**axlzero** · 05-28-2011 07:18 AM

why not give ninja throwing weapons that stack to 99 and give status effects to target? Or can do elemental damage even better a ninja can use elemental spells combined with a throwing weapon to do massive damage burst. another option is improve sange and overhaul it

**wish12oz** · 05-29-2011 01:11 AM

Originally Posted by axlzero

why not give ninja throwing weapons that stack to 99 and give status effects to target? Or can do elemental damage even better a ninja can use elemental spells combined with a throwing weapon to do massive damage burst. another option is improve sange and overhaul it

I'm assuming you didn't read the thread, because well, I wouldnt read it either.
And the answer is simply because even if you did that, it would still not be useful enough to actually use.
You have to make the damage so broken it's not even realistic for it to be done to fix the problems with throwing at lvl 90, and we're not even at the new cap yet. The simple truth is that unless they let throwing be affected by haste, it will never be worth using. If you think this is wrong, here's the math for why throwing is so terrible, propose ideas to make it useful when you understand this:

Shuriken have a 192 delay.
Kannagi+Kamome have a combined (210+180) 390 delay.
When you hit the delay reduction cap of 80%, this becomes a new delay of 78.
78+78=156, you get slightly more then 2 melee attacks rounds per throw.(throwing delay is 192)
with apoc, /war, brutal, eponas you have triple attack+18%, double attack+18%, which means 54% of the time, you get an extra attack per melee round.
So at +54% melee attacks per round, every time you attack, you get 1 extra attack, because you attack twice every round.
you get slightly more then 2 attack rounds per throw, you get 3 attacks per round.
Your throwing damage needs to be slightly better then 6 melee attacks and give as much tp as 6 melee attacks to be on par with just meleeing.
Throwing comes no where near either of these 2 things, and never will, it's impossible unless they make haste affect ranged attacks.

Also: we have slow and blind, the rest isn't really really useful, and if new enfeebling spells are added they should go to RDM.

**Glamdring** · 05-29-2011 03:26 AM

I'm actually on board with Akujima on this issue. I simply never understand why you would ignore a tool available to you, regardless of the job. I'll be clear, my ninja is 49 and it will remain there until my last job leveled, something about loathing the job almost as much as I loathe genocidal maniacs, but I digress. The point is, my throwing is well beyond the 49 ninja cap, my ninjitsu is at the 49 ninja cap, I think my parry is just above the 49 ninja cap, katana is at the 49 cap, evasion was already capped. I actively used throwing, the wheel, etc. to keep those skills up. Why? Were they particularily useful? No. Was it required? Only by me. Do they come in handy on occasion? Hell yes. Same is true on all of my other jobs.

See, all skill is absolutely useless... until you need it, and then it's too late to get it. So it is advisable to use what you have every chance you get to keep it up, so that it is already there when you really need it. That's why so many people complain about parry, guard and shield (if you aren't a paladin), because even if you try to use them, they aren't there. How many times have you heard your Blm complain that their enfeebling or whatever is gimpped when they can't land a specific debuff? Like I said, you need it when you need it. You especially need it in this day and age of trying to !! proc off a sub-job skill when low-manning ___.

To be sure, not all skills are gonna be all that useful, ex. rdm has a ranged attack skill, but the only time a rdm would realisticly use it is to pull in an area where magic would get aggroed, and you don't need to hit to claim with ranged, the other possibility being if they chance upon Ixion. Some abilities are only gotten through merits, and you may not have enough to get everything, again rdm spells come to mind. For the most part however there is a reason to get and use skills.

Ranged attack, since that's what we are discussing here... OK, I'll admit, none of my ranged attack is at capped (I'll be leveling ranger soon, so I expect that to change), and my throwing is higher than my marksmanship. My 90 thief can use all 3 ranged options, but only throwing sees much use. Does it do alot? no. It hits quite a bit tho', gives me a good chunk of TP when it does, and since I love my jinx discus it has a handy added effect, cursing my enemy-handy in this day and age of "to hell with hate control" since it makes it take longer to chase down the hate-happy mages when they pull the mob outta the DD/tank pit. To be sure, I could use X-bow status bolts to effect as well, but I'm gonna skill throwing on my thief and dancer, I'll get marksmanship doing my ranger since I'm more likely to hit and ammo is not free.

Now, Sange... well here's where you are gonna run into a debate. At least prior to Aby a ninja's best friend was his shadows, look up sange and see what it does to your shadows. Maybe we don't care anymore, but it's awfully hard to shake an 8-year reflexive mindset; sue me, but I want my shadows. Second, I'm pretty sure Sange only works with consumed throwing weaps, and at upper levels those cost a fortune... when you can find any. Lastly, sange is a trade off with other things you need to spend merits to get, and you need to decide what kind of ninja you are as to where you spend those, so it's your choice.

That being said, Sange is certainly NOT useless. Shuriken can do alot of damage, pick a fight with a yag ninja, you aren't getting hit for 0 there. Your returnable weaps generally don't do as much damage as shuriken, and I don't believe they work with Sange. They still do something. If you have ready access to a steady supply of shuriken I might seriously consider it. But even without Sange I'd be tossing those things when I had the chance in my activity cycle, they can do alot of damage... in skilled hands.

Am I the only one who's ever watched themself on screen start a ranged attack, whack the mob with a melee attack, then finish using the ranged attack? (I've done the same thing casting, too). Seems using ranged damage is not automatically forfeiting doing melee damage.

**wish12oz** · 05-29-2011 03:47 AM