A Ninja without Throwing...

[wish12oz]

Can never put RNG out of a job if they fixed throwing. Also my idea would simply be to tack on an extremely high D to a shuriken for a "fix" or w/e. like D120~130 should be a good starter.

Hi, RNG is useless and is already out of a job, it is the absolute worst DD in the game, everything else does way more damage then it does, and its obnoxious when rngs stand far away and pull hate, so most intelligent people won't even bring RNGs to anything.

And if you bothered to read the thread, you would of noticed repeatedly how shurikens need to be completely broken, like 300+++ damage to even be half useful. 120-130 is jackishtnothing and would do nothing. Can you please read the effing thread before you post garbage?

Might want to tell the others that because they keep saying the only way that throwing could be fixed would nerf ninja melee DMG and also break the other jobs. I don't see RNG and BLM being put out of a job thought even if throwing was adjusted/fixed.

Same thing to you too, learn game mechanics and read the thread, your uninformed opinions serve no purpose in a debate about game mechanics and math. Fixing ranged damage mechanics so they're useful at max level would break the game. The only possible solution is letting haste affect ranged delay, and that would not fix throwing by itself.

[wish12oz]

for a total of 36 TP per Shuriken, So while the Damage would not be made up, it would give a large bonus to TP, meaning your WS-Phase damage would get a boost.

Shurikens need to do just over 6 melee attacks worth of damage and tp gain to stay on par with just meleeing. (see earlier in the thread) More then this if they are to be better and useful and worth buying and losing inventory/gil for. Your idea would fix the TP gain, but not the damage, around 36 tp per shuriken only the TP is keeping up, and it's not increasing WS frequency. This plus like 700 base damage shurikens would be required with current game mechanics, maybe more, I'm not going to do the math to say exactly what it is, but rest assured 700 is low balling it.

[Karbuncle]

Shurikens need to do just over 6 melee attacks worth of damage and tp gain to stay on par with just meleeing. (see earlier in the thread) More then this if they are to be better and useful and worth buying and losing inventory/gil for. Your idea would fix the TP gain, but not the damage, around 36 tp per shuriken only the TP is keeping up, and it's not increasing WS frequency. This plus like 700 base damage shurikens would be required with current game mechanics, maybe more, I'm not going to do the math to say exactly what it is, but rest assured 700 is low balling it.

Sometimes i forget how beast NIN is :|

Hmmm, Well there goes that idea too. I'm trying not to break the game when i do this, But lets see. Maybe starting at level 10, NIN could get a Shuriken Mastery type Job Trait. Each level would do something like this.

Lv.15 *Increases TP Gain, R.acc, Critical hit rate/damage, Reduces Delay, and Increases Damage of Shurikens
lv. 30
lv. 45
lv. 60
lv. 75
lv. 90

VI Tiers.
*Shuriken Damage: Increases Damage based on your level (your level x1.5) I.E if you're level 40, it adds 60DMG to your shuriken. level 90 adds 135.
*Delay Reduction. Starts at 10%, increases relative to Dual wield.
*Increases Critical hit rate by 5%, Damage by 5% per level. total 30% Each.
*Ranged accuracy: increases R.acc by 5 each tier (total 30)
*Increases TP Gained per shuriken by 7 Each level (Total 48TP Per Shuriken)

This is breaking the game in my eyes, and even i think it wouldn't be enough.

[Akujima]

It doesn't seem to matter anyways, because the norm is that you phase out "crappy" jobs from the roster. If a job doesn't put out what you want it to, does it matter if the person playing it is having fun or not? It's just like what saevel said in another thread... "The whole WAR, MNK, SAM, BRD, BRD, RDM mentality" where players pick and choose jobs based on efficiency and speedy battles...

You may think I'm calling you out or something, but I highly doubt you even bring RNG to events, especially inside Abyssea, and especially if that person has another "better" DD job such as WAR, SAM or MNK. And sure it's cool that you want to win quick and grab as much loot as possible. But that same style of play is also teetering the game out of balance.

Ranged attacks themselves are getting worse and worse, according to your standards I'm guessing. Not to mention the fact that there isn't many situational bosses that require ranged DD to be there, which was another thing I've been asking for. The whole "Spank and Tank" gameplay gets boring after awhile for some people. And the idea behind this thread was to implement different styles of play, not to be harassed about how idiotic we are because we can't beat a boss in 5 minutes instead of 7.

Karb/Wish/GG, you do what pleases you. But don't expect everyone else to take a back seat to efficiency because their favorite job has become "obsolete" so to speak.

[Karbuncle]

I don't know why you insist on bundling me with those two in terms of "Tone of post". I've repeatedly told you that you can play however you want and enjoy the game. REPEATEDLY. I never expect anyone to quit a job.

Did you even read the part where i said I low-manned with my friends? Repeatedly allowing my brother to come on his DRK? DRK is an inefficient job in abyssea, but he enjoys it so i let him do it.

However, The entire idea of this thread however was to improve Throwing to increase its damage and make it more viable as an option to Ninjas, Which is where i commented on. and once your ignorance and hatred left the thread, you can see above we actually made some improvement.

Proof to the positive you are the main source killing your own thread. Instead of offering anything meaningful to the discussion, You make 3 paragraph posts Insulting everyone who has posted recently, and then makes fun of Me, Wish, and GG, then move on to do it again 2 posts later without even reading anything we type.

I say you don't read, cause I've repeatedly encouraged people who post here to play how they want, but also reminding them in an MMO not everyone would accept them like me, and their playstyle is not always met with open arms because its not efficient or damage friendly, yet you seem to repeatedly lump me in with the "Kill yourself" mentality the others have.

I share their opinions and views, but I use a different tone to get my point across.

[Akujima]

This post is for Karbuncle

Hi, RNG is useless and is already out of a job, it is the absolute worst DD in the game, everything else does way more damage then it does, and its obnoxious when rngs stand far away and pull hate, so most intelligent people won't even bring RNGs to anything.

It's this kind of stuff that gets annoying to see. And its this kind of mind set which makes me want to "counter-post". Yes I do read the posts, and sure my replies seem to have a little bit of attitude. But nothing so straight out @$$hole-ish as the quote above, is written in my paragraphs. Admittedly I was wrong to group you together with Wish/GG and whoever else wants to team up and press each others like button against me.

Just as soon as something positive comes about, another "elite" wants to come in and steer us right into the wall again. It's quite funny, because I clearly remember Wish being the one saying that if NIN got better throwing, "it would put RNG out of a job" which is an interesting thing to note. But why not fix RNG then? Or should we just be done with that Job too, and focus on boosting the "better Jobs", continuing to do the same thing that causes them to complain and be upset at the other Jobs that are being left out.

I make good points, and I think that is what in turn sets people off. Relativity is a factor to weigh in. Who would want to play RNG to 90 (or some other job that doesn't fit in the elitists description) only to have people exclude them from events, or be told to level up something else, because RNG isn't "cool enough for school". According to them, what's the point in even having RNG in the game at all? I would like them to answer that if they could.

I am frustrated. This thread was actually starting to turn positive for once, but then someone has to come in and take a dump on our heads.

[Karbuncle]

The honest to goodness best Solution is to offer Ideas.

Spit-ball some fixes, Really think about it.

If you suggest productive means of improvements, others will follow. I even build on them when i see potential.

Just make some suggestions for your own thread, And people will follow. Really really think them out, Weigh the pro's and cons.

[Orenwald]

Shuriken give ~6TP.

Lv. 10
戦術的な - 手裏剣 - Raises TP gained from Thrown Attacks.
(Tactical Shuriken)

Up to...

Lv.90
Tactical Shurikan V

Which, Each trait would give an additional 6TP per Shuriken, for a total of 36 TP per Shuriken, So while the Damage would not be made up, it would give a large bonus to TP, meaning your WS-Phase damage would get a boost.

stack this with Sange and you have a mini-Meditate, hit 3 times and you instantly get another WS. if they make Sange fire off instantly like Eagle Eye Shot it would be even better, you could solo skillchain with any sub you want

[Karbuncle]

stack this with Sange and you have a mini-Meditate, hit 3 times and you instantly get another WS. if they make Sange fire off instantly like Eagle Eye Shot it would be even better, you could solo skillchain with any sub you want

Now all we need to do is get rid of Sange Removing Shadows and we're golden.

WS > Sange > WS > Skillchain.

That wouldn't be that bad of a fix. Maybe as to break it less, the "TP Bonus for ranged attacks" Could only apply to Sange. Meaning you could isntantly get ~150TP With Sange.

[Greatguardian]

This post is for Karbuncle




It's this kind of stuff that gets annoying to see. And its this kind of mind set which makes me want to "counter-post". Yes I do read the posts, and sure my replies seem to have a little bit of attitude. But nothing so straight out @$$hole-ish as the quote above, is written in my paragraphs. Admittedly I was wrong to group you together with Wish/GG and whoever else wants to team up and press each others like button against me.

Just as soon as something positive comes about, another "elite" wants to come in and steer us right into the wall again. It's quite funny, because I clearly remember Wish being the one saying that if NIN got better throwing, "it would put RNG out of a job" which is an interesting thing to note. But why not fix RNG then? Or should we just be done with that Job too, and focus on boosting the "better Jobs", continuing to do the same thing that causes them to complain and be upset at the other Jobs that are being left out.

I make good points, and I think that is what in turn sets people off. Relativity is a factor to weigh in. Who would want to play RNG to 90 (or some other job that doesn't fit in the elitists description) only to have people exclude them from events, or be told to level up something else, because RNG isn't "cool enough for school". According to them, what's the point in even having RNG in the game at all? I would like them to answer that if they could.

I am frustrated. This thread was actually starting to turn positive for once, but then someone has to come in and take a dump on our heads.

Even I've said a dozen times now that I don't give a shit what you do or how you play on your own time. You haven't only been skimming Karbuncle's posts, but everyone's because you find some random hot-button to freak out over before you actually comprehend the content.

This thread would be a lot better if the OP actually attempted to offer a single solution which is actually viable under the constrictions imposed by the game's mechanics. That is the #1 big thing that I've been trying to impress for the past few pages. Saying "Buff throwing because I like it" isn't going to get you very far when it's extremely difficult to come up with a working way to do so. Those very difficulties are the reason why Throwing has been left on the wayside by most players.

Frankly, I really haven't seen a single good point from you. It's mostly just freaking out over how we're "Stomping on your rights" and "trying to oppress you" and such. Hell, I feel like even I've contributed more worthwhile information to this thread than you have. But that doesn't bother me. Continue to shit up your thread all you want despite the fact that everyone else was actually having a polite discussion about the only idea anyone has had this entire time that was at all feasible. It's not my problem.

Spitballing is fine, but throwing out ideas that are impossible to implement or are too vague to even imagine implementing isn't going to do any good. In order to find a way to adjust Throwing in FFXI to make it feasible, you have to first know how Throwing and FFXI work. Unfortunately, a lot of people most certainly do not, and when they post things which are most definitely impossible or which are just so completely outside the bounds of reality it just infinitely frustrates and angers the people who are actually trying to think up a solution.

I've tried. Other people have tried. I seriously can't think of jack shit. Throwing Attacks is the only good idea to come out of all of these throwing threads combined, and it's good solely because it does not use the /RA command. If you could sit down and attempt to actually find a solution that works, rather than freaking out on those of us who know "Idea X won't work", this thread would be a lot better off.