A Ninja without Throwing...

[wish12oz]

When SE wastes time adding useless stuff, the game as a whole suffers because it takes away time from adding good stuff. So yes, there is something wrong with it.

[Darwena]

when something is wrong in a game and its bother you like its seem to do... take a break man seriously, you're mental health would be just better

Also, I don't know why you hate so much the idea of the shuriken, and stop the useless argument or the Katana is better and the mathematical formula... some ppl want new shuriken and if SE make some, what you gonna do? Quit FFXI?

[Karbuncle]

when something is wrong in a game and its bother you like its seem to do... take a break man seriously, you're mental health would be just better

Also, I don't know why you hate so much the idea of the shuriken, and stop the useless argument or the Katana is better and the mathematical formula... some ppl want new shuriken and if SE make some, what you gonna do? Quit FFXI?

Not a single time in this entire thread has anyone said anything close to "NO YOU CANT USE SHURIKEN STOP YOUR AN IDIOT"

My entire Argument since my first post has been Play How you want, Enjoy your Shuriken, RP to your hearts content, But as it stands, The idea of making Throwing a Viable, DD friendly, Acceptable Solution is simply unrealistic..

We don't care if you throw Shuriken, We don't care if you enjoy it, go enjoy it. We really do not care how you spend free time. The only reason this thread is ~13 Pages is because the OP denies logic. We (I) Would not care if they added a New Shuriken, I would however care if instead of a meaningful buff, We got some Ranged Accuracy Job Trait. This is what we're trying to prevent. We know Throwing is Impossible to Fix without seriously crashing the game, So we're trying to prevent SE from thinking "Oh Hey, Ninja's want Ranged Accuracy and Attack job traits and more Sange? OKAY".

Did you read anything? His posts literally start with "I hate how Ninjas doesn't RP Shuriken Enough. Fix it now".

I'll spell this out, Clearer. He's a hypocrite. he Mocks us for only wanting to do damage, while complaining he doesn't get to do enough damage with Shuriken. We don't hate him, or you for liking Shuriken. We hate that he's fighting tooth and nail for a system we've tried to explain just simply will not see a viable buff, one good enough to make it useful, without breaking the game, or nerfing NIN

We don't hate that you love Shurikens, We don't hate that you love Role-playing to Toss shurikens even those its Historically innacurate for a NIN to continually throw Shuriken during Combat which pokes a big hole in that argument, but, anyway, We do not care if you play the game and enjoy it how you want.

You want new Shurikens? Thats a reasonable argument, but i bet you your new Shuriken will either be from

A) 1 per drop from some stupid BCNM no one wants to do.

B)
Yield: 1 New Shuriken
HQ: 2 New shuriken
HQ2: 3 New Shuriken
HQ3: 3 New Shuriken.

Recipe. Goldsmithing 100
Smithing 100
Synergy 80
3x Phrygian Gold Ingot
3x Orichalcum Ingot.

Cause that's apparently good ideas for it (Hint: See Any Shuriken Recipe, and "Targeting the Captain").

Though, i would seriously commemerate if we got a new Shuriken at level 90~+ thats easily accessible. Would it make NIN throw more? not without it having 100% Critical hit rate and a base damage of 400, but it would give players like you something to toss around. Which will make more players happy.

And i'm okay with more players being happy.

I'm just not okay with people making a mockery of these forums.

[Akujima]

Not a single time in this entire thread has anyone said anything close to "NO YOU CANT USE SHURIKEN STOP YOUR AN IDIOT"

Actually, this has been said many many times. And this post right here, says the exact same "we're idiots if we use shuriken" indirectly. Like I said in my final posts: It doesn't matter if someone enjoys RP'ing, because there will always be the trusty "min/max'ers" to the rescue, ganging up in hordes getting their friends to come over and press their "like button", just in case a Dev happens to stroll across this thread.

Their attempt at being polite and saying "do what you want, we don't care" is just a blatant lie. Because a few sentences later, they're twisted logic comes into effect, preaching to you about how you're ruining the game for them, and you should cease and desist immediately, effectively silencing you in the process.

In the end, they're the makers of their own demise, creating such a distasteful atmosphere for other players, that it diminishes the population and eventually after so long, the servers get shut down. All because they've reached their so called goal of "perfection" and what better to do, than go around and spread their elitist views, like some kind of cult instigating others for "not doing it right".

We can only pray that SE has some sense, and decides not to cater to these power hungry people, who try their hardest to drown out and silence the voice of the opposition. Using salesmen-like tactics, they'll continue to try and market their idea's, and these forums have now become just another battleground for their beloved doctrine: Minimizing the other persons view/Maximizing theirs.

[Greatguardian]

You are allowed to do whatever you want when it doesn't affect anyone else. Yes, you're even allowed to be an idiot when it doesn't affect anyone else. That doesn't mean someone running around tossing Shurikens at things isn't an idiot. It just doesn't matter that they are an idiot if they aren't negatively impacting someone else's gameplay. That is okay.

There is a difference between screwing around on your own and trying to bring shuriken to a populated area or a group scenario, though. If you're running around with a group of people trying to DD with Shuriken instead of melee'ing, you're directly impacting their gameplay by underperforming. If you're taking an hour+ to solo Briareus because you're trying to Shuriken it to death, you're directly impacting everyone else's gameplay by underperforming. That is not okay.

Replying to you seems to be a waste of time, though. You don't read anything at all. You misrepresent everyone who disagrees with you by tearing down fictitious strawmen. You sound like some angsty teenager trying to stick it to the man when the neighbors tell him to turn his music down.

[Karbuncle]

Actually, this has been said many many times. And this post right here, says the exact same "we're idiots if we use shuriken" indirectly. Like I said in my final posts: It doesn't matter if someone enjoys RP'ing, because there will always be the trusty "min/max'ers" to the rescue, ganging up in hordes getting their friends to come over and press their "like button", just in case a Dev happens to stroll across this thread.

Their attempt at being polite and saying "do what you want, we don't care" is just a blatant lie. Because a few sentences later, they're twisted logic comes into effect, preaching to you about how you're ruining the game for them, and you should cease and desist immediately, effectively silencing you in the process.

In the end, they're the makers of their own demise, creating such a distasteful atmosphere for other players, that it diminishes the population and eventually after so long, the servers get shut down. All because they've reached their so called goal of "perfection" and what better to do, than go around and spread their elitist views, like some kind of cult instigating others for "not doing it right".

We can only pray that SE has some sense, and decides not to cater to these power hungry people, who try their hardest to drown out and silence the voice of the opposition. Using salesmen-like tactics, they'll continue to try and market their idea's, and these forums have now become just another battleground for their beloved doctrine: Minimizing the other persons view/Maximizing theirs.

Please do not put words in my mouth. No ones ruining the game for me. I don't care if they even throw Shurikens while im in the party. I'll not agree with it. but I won't call them out for it.

Anyone can see from point one, You call everyone out on being "power Hungry", while the entire purpose of this thread was to "buff" your own playstyle of shuriken throwing. You want your Shuriken throwing to do more damage, and yet you condemn those who currently hold damage near them.

You may see it as Twisted, But i see it as Fair. You cannot get respect without first giving it. You have not shown an ounce of respect to anyone in this thread yet.

Maybe not every single one of my posts says it, But my argument has been and will remain that you can play how you want, But it won't make that playstyle any better, and that calling us the wrong ones for enjoying the game in our way (Doing it right) is unfair.

I do truly believe players should be able to have fun any way they can in this game, it is after all a game, i truly believe this, I do not care if you think I'm telling the truth or not. However you are not fooling anyone by trying to paint us as the bad guys. They can see your posts just as well as they see mine. And i at least try to say in every one of mine that I feel you can play as you want, Just don't get angry when people don't always respect your "uniqueness".

Edit: Also, DO you think we can just Agree to Disagree? Last time i tried to defend myself on these boards, no matter how nicely i tried to word it, Apparently i was Flamming. I don't feel like having my Account Suspended due to something like this.

[Laciante]

As it stands Throwing is not as efficient and straight DD, but is that really a reason to ask SE to make multiple styles of play viable? Why is it necessary for there to be a single "right/best way to play"? If the purpose of playing was simply to fit the cookiecutter "best" and play as mechanically efficient as possible, there would be little reason in having the choice of gear or job choices or any sort of customization...
Am I wrong to think there is some margin of forgiveness between being less than perfectly efficient, and truly being a terrible player?

[Karbuncle]

As it stands Throwing is not as efficient and straight DD, but is that really a reason to ask SE to make multiple styles of play viable? Why is it necessary for there to be a single "right/best way to play"? If the purpose of playing was simply to fit the cookiecutter "best" and play as mechanically efficient as possible, there would be little reason in having the choice of gear or job choices or any sort of customization...
Am I wrong to think there is some margin of forgiveness between being less than perfectly efficient, and truly being a terrible player?

Read my post above you! It answers a lot of these question :\

The point isn't that making Throwing Viable is stupid, Its that its unrealistic. Any possible way to make throwing viable at all would either have to completely nerf how we view Dual wield/Haste, Or Buff Throwing so high that it would simply be too powerful to even realistically consider adjusting by SE.

It's not that we're against adding new aspects to the job, We just realize that throwing is something that is simply dead in the water. It cannot be resuscitated by anything short of Gods hand. While I would probably pat SE on the back if they managed to Fix throwing without breaking the game or nerfing NIN, I just can't think of a realistic way.

Someone in another thread mentioned "Throw Attacks", Kind of like "Kick Attacks". Where You'd have ~10% Chance to "toss" a Shuriken at the enemy at the end of your attack stage. He said it wouldn't consume ammo, It would just deal damage based on your Racc/Ratk instead of your Acc/atk. Which I thought was a decent idea, as it only improves Ninjas DPS, not hinder it.

Am I wrong to think there is some margin of forgiveness between being less than perfectly efficient, and truly being a terrible player?

Absolutely Not, I don't wanna go on a huge post please just read what i typed right about you. Mainly the parts about respect being a two way street, Players being able to have fun anyway they want, etc. If players who hold a "Unique" Style dear cannot respect us who hold the "right way" dear ro them, They can not expect us to respect them any more than they respect us.

Respect is earned and not given. If i Join a party and the NIN is just standing in range full R.acc/r.atk armor tossing Shuriken, I won't belittle him, I'd probably run a parse to see how well he's doing, But i'd let him do his thing as long as he doesn't start yammering about how gimp someone else is, or how bad another NIN is for not throwing Shuriken.

Its when the insults come into play that i stand and object.

[wish12oz]

As it stands Throwing is not as efficient and straight DD, but is that really a reason to ask SE to make multiple styles of play viable? Why is it necessary for there to be a single "right/best way to play"? If the purpose of playing was simply to fit the cookiecutter "best" and play as mechanically efficient as possible, there would be little reason in having the choice of gear or job choices or any sort of customization...

Through this entire thread I have explained to you that throwing cannot be made good, without seriously breaking the games mechanics. And if you think about it, if they broke the games mechanics, and made throwing good, that would become the new best way to play ninja, and would suddenly become 'cookie cutter' as you put it. Things become 'cookie cutter' because they are good, and for no other reason, you can label it as bad, but in actuality, 'cookie cutter' is usually best, because that's how it becomes 'cookie cutter.' All you are really doing, is asking for the way you want to play ninja to become the standard.

Different gear being available isn't so people can wear whatever they want based on whims. It's there to suit specific purposes of, you guessed it, playing efficiently. And it's not like SE set out to create static subs for certain jobs, it just works out that some subjobs out perform others. You can go be gimp and sub whatever you want, no one is stopping you, but you need to quit advocating BS and asking for the impossible. You should learn how the game works, so you have a better understanding of what would need to be done to fix things.

Am I wrong to think there is some margin of forgiveness between being less than perfectly efficient, and truly being a terrible player?

The only truly terrible players, are the ones who don't know anything about how the game works, and refuse to learn.

[Karbuncle]

Wrong guy Wish.