A Ninja without Throwing...

[Karbuncle]

You know, I actually have a good idea.

If you hate us Western cultures so much, Why not go present your Idea to the JP Forums? See how they respond.

Seems like a good idea.

[wish12oz]

I'm done, there's no point anymore.

one

two

oooOOoo, why so serious? You think I'm backing out? I'm just bored and I have better things to do all day then study algorithms of current game mechanics, and argue with zealots all day on forums.

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five

How many more posts are you going to make after you claimed you were done with this thread, and had better things to do?

Sorry it took me so long to get back to you, had to go kill Odin real quick with 8 people, cause I actually have other stuff to do. Off to go work on my friends Ochain now~

[Fiarlia]

How about all FF's that NIN do have throwing? FF tactics, FF3, FF4, FF6.

I never said that there aren't FF games that do what you're citing. You asked for someone to prove that FF games without Ninjas having a Throw command being one of their key points. I did exactly that. Hell, I even admitted that FFVII is a bit of a gray area, though the Throwing of Yuffie is merely an aesthetic Throwing, not a gameplay mechanic.

Yuffie technically doesn't have a "Throw" command (isnt there a throw materia?... idk havent played 7 in so long), but she's still Ninja-like and still throwing something ALL the time.

Not sure at all why you're mentioning this and trying to bring it up as a counterpoint because I already mentioned it in my post. Yes, it has a Throw command Materia, but since everyone can equip every Materia, it's not a key feature of the Ninja class or closest representation of it in the game in question (the characters appear to have jobs, but they're all exactly the same aside from Limit Breaks and stats). We could argue this point on semantics, as I'll acknowledge that in the terms of role-playing, Yuffie is a Ninja and throws a Shuriken during battle. But as far as gameplay is concerned she isn't throwing squat, her damage would be exactly the same and she would play exactly the same if she was wielding a Kunai or two. And I acknowledged this in my initial post, though in less words.

Anyways whatever, my strong opinion offends you, so I'm sorry I'm not just like you, I apologize for being different^^

Your opinion offends me? Nope. Actually, if there were a way to make Shuriken tossing viable in FFXI, I'd be all over it. I loved throwing Shurikens in the lower levels when the damage was roughly that of a GAX and the delay roughly that of a dagger, when Haste gear and the spell(s) weren't readily available. I honest to goodness loved it, and I miss it. But do you know what I'd miss more? Not doing good damage and playing a job to the fullest of its ability. Sorry to say, but this does not include flinging shurikens at mobs. And unless they do something utterly and stupidly ridiculous like adding new shurikens that are easy to come by that have retardedly massive damage (and I mean an unrealistic number for a shuriken - going against the RP mentaility, as it'd be completely out of the realm of feasibly possible), there's absolutely no way to make it viable. Not with the way the game mechanics currently work. And if they were to change the game mechanics, I'd much rather them use that time and effort (yes, it would take lots of both to make it happen) to do something more worthwhile, like make Ninja better on mobs that aren't comparatively weak - and Throwing skill isn't the way it would happen. No, I'd love it if it were feasible, but sometimes you just gotta realize that what you want can't happen.

The only part of you that I find offensive is basically what Krabknuckle is pointing out. You're quick to rage, quick to insult, quick to pull the RL card and call people fat/ugly/stupid. You're racist. You're stupidly hypocritical. You don't listen to logic or reason. You don't listen to math (which is something that's not under the scrutiny of opinion). Basically, you whine and complain and act like a total dickwad towards anyone who disagrees. You're throwing the internet equivalent of a combination of a grade schooler learning how to call people bad names, a two-year old throwing a "terrible two's" tantrum, and a high-schooler that thinks they know everything and listen to nobody. Stop your bitching and grow the fuck up.

[Akujima]

The only part of you that I find offensive is basically what Krabknuckle is pointing out. You're quick to rage, quick to insult, quick to pull the RL card and call people fat/ugly/stupid. You're racist. You're stupidly hypocritical. You don't listen to logic or reason. You don't listen to math (which is something that's not under the scrutiny of opinion). Basically, you whine and complain and act like a total dickwad towards anyone who disagrees. You're throwing the internet equivalent of a combination of a grade schooler learning how to call people bad names, a two-year old throwing a "terrible two's" tantrum, and a high-schooler that thinks they know everything and listen to nobody. Stop your bitching and grow the fuck up.

I'm sorry I couldn't finish reading this last part of your post. I was too busy lauging my ass off, as soon as my eye caught glimpse of that Riker and Picard pic in your sig, which I will give you props for.


~~~~~~~~~~~Late night feature presentation~~~~~~~~~~~~
Episode 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9z46_...eature=related

Episode 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3OQP...el_video_title
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Enjoy.

[Fiarlia]

Not too surprising, since you've been failing to read pretty much everything anyone has been saying anyway, so at least you're par for the course, right?

[Akujima]

Yes, Throwing in past FF was great, in FFXI it isn't, And there is absolutely no possible way outside of absolutely breaking everything we know about current Haste/Ranged Mechanics that will ever change this.

So I overlooked the whole forums. And...

It all pretty much comes down to the "min/max'ers" ruling the game and making the decisions. And that would be the main reason "such and such" would/could and should never be implemented. Simply because they say so (The numbers don't add up).

So, I urge thee not to indulge in the right of free speech, lest you be stricken with grief from your fellow LS mates, whom abide by the code of logic, and will do everything and stop at nothing, to run your dreams of change and creative thought into the ground, armed with the almighty weapon of mathematics.

Alas I warn thee, for not only do these nomadic creatures travel in packs, but call for aid often! You will soon be surrounded by swarms of them, banded together, aiding one another in the plot to twist your own words against you.

So, in the end my friend... Take caution when around these persistent predators. For should you be foolish enough to speak your mind, would only spell doom, and to shy away from this fact of the dreary "min/max'er", would be like sealing the nail on your own coffin.

The End.


How's that for some biblical RP $#!% ???

[Greatguardian]

rah rah fight da powah. Awful lotta hipster rage up in here.

It's also not hard to "Twist your own words against you" when your own words don't do jack shit to support your case. Rather, that's assuming you had a case to begin with. Your opponents in this thread have offered better Shuriken solutions than you have (Not hard, since you haven't offered any), and even they acknowledge them to be wholly broken.

Instead of going off on another tangent trying to insult anyone who disagrees with you or raving about "free speech" and "thinking outside the box", or whatnot, try coming up with a single real counterpoint or idea beyond "Nerf the shit out of NIN and turn it into COR-1".

If you don't care how much damage one deals, then you don't need a Throwing buff. Period.

If you do care how much damage one deals, then you need to provide a Throwing buff that is both possible within the existing mechanics of the game and can at least respectably stand up to Melee damage. Good luck with that though. Karb and I have both tried, and it doesn't look good at all.

[Darwena]

@Akujima;

Like you're post man, simply love them. It's nice to see some player who still like the RPG part of the FFXI game. I'm agree with you, will be nice to se shuriken come back in FFXI for Ninja.

Want speed? Snap shot was acting like haste for Ranged weapon. so why not having snap shot for shuriken... Give us shuriken for lv 90 and we almost seted. why not some effect shuriken like bolt or arrow?

Think ppl will leave RNG for that? in the last new, with all the argue how sucky the shuriken is and OMG we should boost our melee combat... You still playing NIN over WAR or MNK no? And I think they are waaaaay stronger than NIN so far... As I know, PPL are still playing PLD now and they work hard to prove they still good for tanking when MNK and NIN took the #1 and #2 place for tank.

To all other who like to bash on Akujima: I have nothing to say cause what ever I will say, unless I say the same thing, you won't like it neway.

[wish12oz]

I'm not good at English, but I like throwing and want it made better

Here's the problem with throwing, I doubt you saw it.

I'm gonna spell this out for you, try not to get lost, read it til you get it.
Manji Shuriken have a 192 delay.
Kannagi+Kamome have a combined (210+180) 390 delay.
When you hit the delay reduction cap of 80%, this becomes a new delay of 78.
78+78=156, you get slightly more then 2 melee attacks rounds per throw.(throwing delay is 192)
with apoc, /war, brutal, eponas you have triple attack+18%, double attack+18%, which means 54% of the time, you get an extra attack per melee round.
So at +54% melee attacks per round, every time you attack, you get 1 extra attack, because you attack twice every round.
you get slightly more then 2 attack rounds per throw, you get 3 attacks per round.
Your throwing damage needs to be slightly better then 6 melee attacks and give as much tp as 6 melee attacks to be on par with just meleeing.
Throwing comes no where near either of these 2 things, and never will, it's impossible unless they make haste affect ranged attacks.

Argue against me, go ahead.

How exactly do you think throwing can overcome meleeing?

[Darwena]

Don't care if will be better or not, but sometime I prefer using throwing (mob with high spike armor) than melee to give me a break since I solo/duo 90% of time.

I dont hargue than melee sux again shuriken, I just want new shuriken... nothing wrong had having new stuff no?