THF and DNC

[Tsukino_Kaji]

game is not 75 anymore.

I'm just quoting this line so I can point it out later Ram. ^^

[Rambus]

maybe I should of said the game should not be 75 anymore, it feels like it is 75 due to lack of upgrades and rules that exist that applays to 75 cap

[Novax]

Thf is only there for the TH!
Dnc is only there to haste sambe for AV kills

Now rdm, rdm truly needs cure 5!

[Byrth]

"oh you have TH! you're always wanted! BLAHBLAHBLAHHURP I dont even have THF leveled so i have no idea how useless and placebo TH is DERP DERP but i'll still act like its the best ability in the game HERP HERP"

It's kind of hard to avoid seeing this as directed at me, so here's the link that shows you're wrong:
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/954...-final-results

TH definitely does matter. If you're doing an event for drops and choosing between a Ukon WAR and a THF, you should always choose the Thief. Killing half as quickly but getting more than twice as many drops ends up being a good deal. There are plenty of times on Dancer when I solo NMs where I don't need to Waltz at all and wish I had Thief leveled because I'd like to get drops.

Assuming they extended the mechanism proposed in that thread further, the odds of a drop with TH3 are:
n = (1 - Drop rate)
TH3 Drop rate = (1-n^4)

10% drop rate -> 35% drop rate.
30% drop rate -> 76% drop rate.
50% drop rate -> 94% drop rate.

Blue and TH is much better than just Blue. I wonder why? This doesn't even account for whatever TH+1 and the new proc system does.

Yeah, poor Thief. It's hard being one of the most useful jobs in the game.

[Karbuncle]

It's kind of hard to avoid seeing this as directed at me, so here's the link that shows you're wrong:
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/954...-final-results

TH definitely does matter. If you're doing an event for drops and choosing between a Ukon WAR and a THF, you should always choose the Thief. Killing half as quickly but getting more than twice as many drops ends up being a good deal. There are plenty of times on Dancer when I solo NMs where I don't need to Waltz at all and wish I had Thief leveled because I'd like to get drops.

Assuming they extended the mechanism proposed in that thread further, the odds of a drop with TH3 are:
n = (1 - Drop rate)
TH3 Drop rate = (1-n^4)

10% drop rate -> 35% drop rate.
30% drop rate -> 76% drop rate.
50% drop rate -> 94% drop rate.

Blue and TH is much better than just Blue. I wonder why? This doesn't even account for whatever TH+1 and the new proc system does.

Yeah, poor Thief. It's hard being one of the most useful jobs in the game.

Actually, Its not directed at you in any way. I read like, half of the thread. If this is your point of view its seriously nothing more than mere coincidence. I promise and assure you. It was not directed at you.

But, Way to take Maximum Offense and go Full Salvo defending the ULTIMATE HONOR OF YOUR POSTS WITH ALL THE KINGS THREADS. Wasn't aware anyone could take something so stupid as "TH is placebo" so Seriously.

Really, I thought most THF's know "TH Is Placebo" is more of a running joke amongst the Community. I'm full aware Treasure Hunter is not Placebo, I'm full aware it actually effects drops quite nicely. I don't know what word i would use to describe my post... But it was more "Half Serious" "Half Sarcasm" "half Masochist". Meaning I'm aware TH is working as intended, but i also tend to hate the "dumb luck" aspect of the game too.

Doesn't mean i seriously believe its Placebo.

I can't be the only one who gets TH upgrade on a mob and goes "WOO, Stronger placebo!" ?

Edit: Also, Shamaya is a friend of mine in game too :X I'm aware of all of his Blog posts and Tests. They're very nice. He is my Idol THF. So i've went over those things a lot, He did put a lot of effort into it. I'm sorry you misunderstood me. I edited my old post so future mistakes like this don't happen.

[Eeek]

Yeah, I don't think Krabnuckle meant it literally. We all know that TH isn't placebo, but for those of us who have played THF for a few years, TH did become a cynical joke. All THFs have heard 'THF? Y U NO GIVE ME DORPS' over and over and over and over and over and over again. Friends/LS mates give us a hard time every time they go 1/1 on an NM drop without a THF.

"Believe in Koki!"

(I passionately hated bandwagons SAMs....)

You know, those kind of jokes. And it gets old. And we grow cynical. And then we head out, TH another mob, put on our dunce cap, stand in a corner, and watch as the QQs roll in when FFXI's random number generator denies them another drop.

BandwagonSAM defeats Kirin
You find a Wind Crystal on Kirin
<LS> wtf!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<LS> lolTHF

/sigh

[RaenRyong]

Not to mention some LSs are actually dumb enough that they will deny certain people coming on THF and allow others (with equal levels of TH) just because they feel like one THF is luckier than another.

The whole "placebo" joke is largely self-mocking since the playerbase basically treats us like worthless whores.

[Rambus]

yeah what those 3 posts above me said, i herd it too.

so i would get on and say hey can i go thf? tarutaru th is the best!

eeek might of herd me say it before lol

[Byrth]

You guys need to play with people who understand statistics or at least aren't superstitious. I've been tanking Glavoids with a TH3+3 THF for the last week or so (starting Ukon... kinda) and have popped 12. I have 14 shells from them and don't blame the THF. It's probability. My sample size is small. If I include all the Glavoids I've ever killed, this pushes it to around 1.4 per Glavoid. If I include all the NMs I killed for Twashtar, this puts it around 1.5 upgrade items per monster. If I'm actually going to get another 161 items for Ukon, it'll probably even out in the end to approximately as many as Twashtar took me.

I landed 93 Quicksteps in a row while testing Striking Flourish. (.95^93 = ~1% chance) I'm not somehow "Lord of Dance, Luckiest Quickstep in all the land!" If you track enough statistics, you're going to see things that are predicted to happen 1% of the time... approximately 1% of the time.

PS. Sorry for assuming you'd read the thread, Karb. You pretty much exactly addressed my point and used terms that made me think of old FFXI where people would refer to their Thief's Knife as a "Placebo Sticker" as if it did literally nothing, and then bitch and moan for pages as if sacrificing a Thief's offhand was really affecting the alliance's damage output more than TK was helping its drop rate.

[Eeek]

I play with real people.

I do not play only with people who are coldly logical, completely rational, and entirely lacking emotion. They do not spend their play time running numbers through multiple spreadsheets to see if and exactly how TH works. They don't need formulas and numbers to know it works. THFs would never leave their Mog Houses on the job if TH was truly broken, and I sure don't see people rushing to do things like Dynamis or farm Empyrean Weapon items without a THF.

No, the 'problem' isn't logical - it's cultural. Friends tend to tease one another in jest, and in FFXI, TH is one gigantic target. That's what we're trying to communicate to you. Our friends know that it's random, they know that it does work, and when it doesn't, we THFs know that our friends will tease us. Sure, it's all in good fun, but it can and does get to us over the course of a few years. To some degree, we all grow somewhat cynical about our 'Placebo' since we don't have any real control over it, and because we can't control it, it falls 'victim' to superstition and perceptions of luck.

That's just reality. We THFs bring it up and tend to joke about it since every single one of us has experienced the exact same thing to one degree or another. For us, it's just a part of talking shop.