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  1. #41
    Player Shiyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    705
    Character
    Kitori
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    NIN Lv 99
    Yeah your 200m item that takes weeks of time to make you cannot bypass with gil is sometimes situationally better or a literal macro piece while aeonics are free, take 4-5 hours to finish with a proper group and are better nearly all the time.

    THAT is the issue.
    THAT is why aeonics need to be nerfed into the ground or have a step added that makes them cost 200m+, which honestly still wouldn't be enough since you can make EIGHTEEN people one aeonic in a day while it takes WEEKS to make a single mythic or emp.

    Aeonics were just a gigantic mistake, they go against the entire design of the game and don't belong. They need to be forgotten and left behind to rot as we move forward.
    (0)
    Last edited by Shiyo; 06-19-2018 at 04:06 PM.

  2. #42
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,547
    Character
    Nyarlko
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Just curious, but Shiyo and Halley.. how many Aeonics do you have? If they are as easy to acquire as you guys declare them to be, you should both have all of them by now right?

    How well does the club perform for WHM? I've never heard much talk about it, and I've actually known some diehard melee WHMs.

    You guys also forgot about Tri-Edge. Just because it's not normally the best idea to whack things yourself does not make BST any less officially a melee/frontline job. >_<;; I personally hate meleeing on BST due to the miserable lack of incentive to do so built into the job, but the devs decreed that we are intended to be doing so, so why was this not included in the "ALL AEONICS ARE BIS" debate?

    I'm planning to make the Aeonic staff next for Occult Acumen shenanigans with BLM, and actually plan to whack things with it! I'm looking forward to multistep solo sc+mb. As BLM. XD (SCH can do it too, and it's even a bit easier for them than for BLM.)
    Light: Full Swing > (Heavy Swing / Rock Crusher / Earth Crusher / Full Swing) [Fusion] > Vidohunir [Light]
    Dark: (Earth Crusher / Shell Crusher) > (Starburst / Sunburst / Cataclysm) [Gravitation] > Vidohunir [Darkness]
    OR simpler: Vidohunir <> (Retribution / Shattersoul) [Darkness]
    It's even possible to stretch them out a bit more if you really want to, but will need Impact and an Aspir-able target, or TP wings, to pull off anything beyond 4-5 WS in a row IIRC. My point being with this that just because something's not a "melee" weapon, doesn't mean that it should be ignored in a comparison discussion. ^^
    (0)
    Last edited by Nyarlko; 06-19-2018 at 06:49 PM.
    “That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.”

  3. #43
    Player Kishr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    131
    Character
    Kishr
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    I'm still curious where this free in 4-5 hours comes from....
    (1)

  4. #44
    Player Afania's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,445
    Character
    Afania
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 1
    Quote Originally Posted by Halley View Post
    The word fact and the part about dnc is the only part that was correct

    Everything you stated was opinion. You LIKE to use this weapon instead of that weapon. your friend LIKES to use this instead of that.

    How you feel about it doesn't matter.
    All of the weapons mentioned above are not emotional argument. If anything, only using ONE weapon is for everything is emotional argument, not logic.

    Ukon: It's drastically underrated, I blame someone on forum bashing it here and there on AH WAR forum. On paper/spreadsheet it totally surpasses Chango if SC doesn't matter, and beats Mont +1/reso build if fight lasts more than 2 min and prebuffed with AM3. It also performs better if NM has some sort of amnesia move.

    I've played with Ukon WAR who also owns Mont +1/Chango from time to time and parsed all things, Ukon isn't inferior in every way. Most of the time you see Mont+1/Chango winning then another time Ukon wins because situations favor it.

    But thanks to that one person bash it so hard everytime ukon is mentioned because he doesn't have it himself, community thinks it's bad.

    Going to make it bold so everyone can read: Ukon is not a bad weapon, stop believing some vocal player's pov about it. In practice it's totally competitive with GS on parse while providing fusion WS.


    Apoc: How'd Catastrophe a "lolscythe" when it can save people's ass? I listed multiple occasions that benefits it already.

    BLU: Ok so you agree that sequence isn't BiS, lolk, proved my point. "If you use tizona you're terrible" is biased statement. But either way, sequence isn't meant to be full timed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Halley View Post
    How you feel about it doesn't matter.
    Using apoc when you're dying isn't making decision by feelings, it's making decision by logic. It makes more sense to use apoc when you're dying than not. Using Ukon in 3 min fight when you can prebuff with AM or with amnesia move isn't decision by feelings, it's decision by logic. Using whatever isn't sequence when light SC is required isn't feelings, it's logic. And the list goes on.

    If anything, you're the only person argue about feelings, not logic here.
    (0)
    Last edited by Afania; 06-21-2018 at 07:25 AM.

  5. #45
    Player Shiyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    705
    Character
    Kitori
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    NIN Lv 99
    Parses are completely useless in this game and have no baring on whether or not a weapon is good not. There's far too much player error, rng, and variance in this game for them to be useful for anything.

    Every emp is BIS in perma-amnesia land, it doesn't mean aeonics aren't superior 99.99% of the time, because they are.

    That's the issue, the vast majority of non-aeonic ultimate weapons are niche, situational, or outright outclassed in every single situation by aeonics or CRAFTED weapons while requiring WEEKS of work(especially mythics!!) and ~200m gil vs aeonics requiring 1 day and and 0 gil.

    Aeonics shouldn't be ANYWHERE near as powerful as they are when you factor in how little gil(zero) and time they take in comparison to other ultimate weapons(again, especially mythics).

    You also have to factor in that by Aeonics being so easy, cheap, and quick to make(I mean, go look at peoples xiah profiles with 2-3 rows of aeonics and 0-2 of other RME's, max. It's very apparent they're too easy to make.) you end up where there's a LOT less things to work towards and grind towards in the game, and a lot less goals to make. That's a really, really, really bad thing to have in a game that gets ONE content update a year. People run out of things to do so fast because mythics/emps are a real long grind that people are completely ignoring since they're either garbage weapons(mythics, all of the melee ones) or too situational/niche for people to waste their time when they can just make an aeonic in a day and have a BIS weapon for 99.99% situations, or one good enough that they don't care to spend weeks-months on a slightly better weapon.

    Buff relics, MASSIVELY buff mythics/emps ,and nerf aeonics to the GROUND.
    (0)
    Last edited by Shiyo; 06-21-2018 at 08:09 AM.

  6. #46
    Player camaroz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    65
    Character
    Nitenichi
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    @Nyarlko "How well does the club perform for WHM? I've never heard much talk about it, and I've actually known some diehard melee WHMs."

    Yag specifically with AM beats everything

    P.S. If they hadn't nerfed Realmrazer Tishtrya might have been THE club.
    (0)

  7. #47
    Player Afania's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,445
    Character
    Afania
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 1
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiyo View Post
    Parses are completely useless in this game and have no baring on whether or not a weapon is good not. There's far too much player error, rng, and variance in this game for them to be useful for anything.

    Every emp is BIS in perma-amnesia land, it doesn't mean aeonics aren't superior 99.99% of the time, because they are.
    You don't approve parses, you don't approve spreadsheet, and yet you repeatly claim aeonic is best 99.99% of time. Exactly where does this claim came from? If someone make a statement like "X gear is best", they need a reason. Either math, spreadsheet, or parses. But atm, you are providing none, except "it's best because I said so"

    Hell, not even general community view aeonic as best of very best among REMA weapons. Many discussions still support Masa for SAM TP spam, sequence/savage build still isn't a thing for blu, and serious DD DRK certainly prioritize calad over anguta. I seriously don't understand how this "aeonic is best 99.9999% of time" came from.

    DRG, NIN, THF. Those jobs has god tier aeonics, that's it. For every other jobs claiming their aeonic is best 99.99999% of time is flat out wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiyo View Post
    You also have to factor in that by Aeonics being so easy, cheap, and quick to make(I mean, go look at peoples xiah profiles with 2-3 rows of aeonics and 0-2 of other RME's, max. It's very apparent they're too easy to make.) you end up where there's a LOT less things to work towards and grind towards in the game, and a lot less goals to make.
    Even with aeonics so easy, it's still incredibly time consuming to cap on 2+ jobs. Just having aeonic isn't enough for min maxers. Real min maxers would also get every single HQ and other REMA for niche use.

    Those who finish an aeonic and quit, they'd quit anyways, just let them.
    (2)
    Last edited by Afania; 06-21-2018 at 02:14 PM.

  8. #48
    Player DarkValefor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    71
    Character
    Kukiki
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    I'd actually say in most situations it's aeonics that are situational, in zergs where you are not SCing empys usually win. Also I love how aeonics cost no gil and no effort, might be only me, but before I could get into an aeonic group I got 3 mythics, 4 relics and 2 empys and I had to spend quite a few gil into pop items.
    (0)

  9. #49
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,547
    Character
    Nyarlko
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by camaroz View Post
    @Nyarlko "How well does the club perform for WHM? I've never heard much talk about it, and I've actually known some diehard melee WHMs."

    Yag specifically with AM beats everything

    P.S. If they hadn't nerfed Realmrazer Tishtrya might have been THE club.
    That's too bad. I was kinda picturing beefy Mystic Boon spam keeping a WHM topped off on MP at all times w/o interfering with skillchains and ridiculous self-sc'ing like I plan to do with BLM. How'd they nerf Realmrazer?
    (0)
    “That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.”

  10. #50
    Player Justuas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    104
    Character
    Justuas
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    WAR Lv 99
    We'll see how the aeonics compare to the new weapons they are going to release at some point.
    (0)

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