FIX Relic Weapons

[Rawr]

Just some random ideas.

Relic weapon
1) remove aftermath.
2) remove attack or accuracy bonus.
3) remove 5% chance of doing double or triple damage.
5) the lv require to equip relic should be 75 instead of scaling with magian quests.
6) ws modifier 3.0 should scale with character lv. Each Lv after 75 will give you addition of 0.1
lv99 ws modifier will be 5.4
7) when doing any type of damage with relic weapon, an additional percentage of damage will be added.
It will also scale with character lv.
@Lv75 additional damage is +10%
@Lv99 additional damage is +34% (including magic damage and pet damage).
8) magian quest will increase the D base of the weapon.
9) every job should be able to use at least 1 relic weapon.

Mystic weapon :
1) all 3 types of aftermath effect will be trigger on mystic ws.
2) aftermath effect will scale with character lv.
3) magian quest will increase the D base of the weapon and potency of the jt/ja.
4) ws damage should scale with character lv.

[Rambus]

that sounds like a nurf but idoono melee formulas well to say
the 90 version already has more ws power

[Runespider]

I'm hoping that the idea with Empy weapons being so powereful was to make people do them and that now that abyssea is over and people have beeing working on empy weapons they will now slowly start boosting relics more to put them back at the top again. As an MMO you want to constantly keep players working on things and putting relics back at the top makes mroe sense than keeping empy weapons which are very east to get at the top.

[Riko]

When you look at most Empyrean weapons they look as if they've been taken from some other game and dropped into FFXI. In my opinion most of them don't fit in with FFXIs style like Relics and Mythics do. If you look at the group pictures of Relics, Mythics and Empyreans on wiki you can see the difference, they look flashy but something's a little off. Relics and Mythics not only look better designed for FFXI, but have statistical benefits unique to their own weapon type, not just "Occasionally deals double damage." on them all; although they do have that hidden effect. Relics and Mythics can dramatically change how you play a job, Empyreans can dramatically change your damage output for that job and that's about it.

Good examples of job changing weapons would be:

Yagrush - Permanent AoE on all -na spells including Erase is unbelievably helpful at making you more efficient on White Mage.

Laevateinn - The Lv.90 version of this has +50 MAB, that's a jump of +10 MAB every 5 levels from Lv.75. While this might still be out done by Magian trial staves, it's still only Lv.90 and I suspect at Lv.95~99 this will have at least +70 MAB and will be the best staff for Black Mage, not only dealing the most damage but saving inventory space.

Carnwenhan and Gjallarhorn - Increased song duration can free up a lot of time for a Bard to help support in other ways such as curing and removing status effects. This can take a lot of stress off of a White Mage or whoever you have healing at the time. Also paired with Gjallarhorn, you can extend the duration at Lv.90 to around 5 minutes or more without the help of Troubadour. Of course Gjallarhorn, before everyone was brainwashed by Abysseas' massive MP Boosts and Refresh Atmas was essential at keeping your White Mage and other mages MP pools filled over long duration battles. Let's just hope fights like we've had at Lv.75 are back at Lv.99, very preferably outside of Abyssea.

Apocalypse - Probably the best Aftermath any Melee could wish for, HP drain and Haste. The weapon skill Catastrophe itself drains HP from the target based on damage dealt, which at Lv.90 gets at least a +25% damage boost. This for Dark Knight makes it possible to stay alive easily and Dark Knight can also become a possible "Tanking" option, even when using the Job Ability Souleater. Of course the HP drain from Catastrophe and its Aftermath healing yourself for 1000 HP+ over a few seconds relieves a lot of stress on a White Mage or again whoever is curing at the time.

Annihilator - Coronach might not be the most powerful weapon skill at the moment for Ranger but it's aftermath is very helpful, even at dealing more damage. The weapon skill itself has reduced enmity to the equivalent of having fired a single shot instead of blasting out 1500+ damage weapon skill at the target, which you are likely to do on the Lv.90 version anyway. This makes it so a Ranger can almost continuously fire shots at the target without getting its attention, making it easier on whoever has "Hate" at the time and even less stress on other support jobs.

Also in future I think that these Empyrean weapon skills will be available to all weapons, just like Mythic weapon skills are obtainable via quests, these might be obtainable via Magian trials to come or more quests. One last thing I'd like to point out is that most Relic and Mythic weapon skills have unique animations, where as most Empyrean weapon skills are older weapon skill animations with new flashy effects.

[Dew]

Each set of weapons was created with different aspects.

Relics focus on Raw damage, Acc, Atk, Racc, Ratk, and each has a unique aftermath.
Relics have the highest base damage in all three of the sets.

Mythics focus on Job specific areas. Many of the aftermaths are simular.
Mythics have the lowest base damage of all three sets.

Empyreans focus on status modifiers. All of the aftermaths are the same.
Empyreans are in the middle base damage wise.

The problem now is that Mythic and Relic ws's have weak modifiers. The weapons bases are fine. The weapons aren't the part that would need any adjustment to even them out, it would be the ws modifiers.

Each set of weapons has a unique set of properties. Damage output isn't the only thing based on the weapons. Effects, Aftermaths, Added effects, etc also come into play.

[Denabond]

Unfortunately to most ppl in this game, damage is everything to them. This is why most Relic users are so adamant about fixing their weapons so that they are on top again. But as Dew has said, best way for SE to fix it is to make Mythic and Relic WSs better. Not just a straight up increase in damage like they did at lvl 90 since certain WSs were crap before then, and that extra 25% didn't make them do much to make ppl want to use them.

[Rambus]

I want to know why emp weapon's base is higher then mythic then..

Really like to hear what SE intends to have like relic > mythic > emp so we can start properly comment to SE how to go around doing that.

Mythics really needs the most adjusments, like some are under other weapons for some jobs + costing too much money to be quesed based.

I also do not understand why emp weapons where givin level 3 properties when mythics are suck on a level 1 and a level 2.

when mythics first came out I thought having the real mythic weapon would unlock a level 3 property for the mythic ws.

Hmm since there are new normal ws comming out and the best ws is always chainging, would it be ok to give mythics and relics access the emp ws?

lest two of the mythic issues is fixed ( having a level 3 property), then you fix the issue of having to use a weak ws ( like trueflight for the rng mythic, cor mythic, have really weak ws)
if both those ws had acess to wildfire, it would pad thier tatical vaule. (and letting the emp ws trigger aftermaths on mythics).

mythics need ths most fixing, it would be nice to see more of them due to having more vaule in combat.

relics is a bit easier to fix, pad ws damage, change aftermath effect and your gold, mythics has a lot more issues then that

[Fetus]

It's been said a dozen times over, so I'm not going to beat a dead horse (too much), but Mythics were stated to be artifacts that improved job specificity. Yagrush is a perfect example. They're not meant to, nor were they ever intended, to be supreme damage-dealing weapons. The only thing that's completely bogus about Mythics is that they're impossible to get. Nobody does Nyzule Isle, ZNM, Einherjar or Salvage anymore with any frequency. You couldn't pay people to help you with that crap for as long as it would take to finish a Mythic. SE did an exemplary job of killing that off indefinitely with the introduction of Abyssea. If anyone is to "fix" Mythics, the requirements to obtain them must first be examined and reworked to fit in the current metagame. The weapons themselves are fine. If you built a Mythic to deal damage only, you made a serious mistake. Dealing tremendous damage is solely the purview of Empyreans. It should also be within the range of Relic weapons, but until notable adjustments are made, Relics will just be squatting on middle ground in terms of usefulness and overall damage capability.

[Cursed]

I'll tell you one thing; If they make relics more attainable they lose any credibility they had with me, and many other loyal players.
I bit my tongue when after 4 years of grinding 5 jobs to 75 they made it easier to exp. All that time and effort I spent to get ahead and the status I attained inside the community could now be replicated with less than half the effort.

I bit my tongue when they released toAU tp burns and made the mobs a lot easier to tank and kill. All those years of actually learning party dynamics, and being forced to adapt to different types of mobs, out the window. WS>WS>SC>MB dynamics disappeared forever.

I bit my tongue when they made ridiculously easy to level in Abyssea, and released gear that made everything I had spent the previous decade attaining worthless.

The final nail in the coffer is them making the most prestigious class of weapons in a game obsolete, and then pissing on them and all the hard work that went into attaining them by furthering the insult by making them easy to obtain.

Relics, especially the early ones, represent so much more than just a weapon.
No true FFXI player will ever regard empyreans as anything close in novelty or sentiment to relics.
SE is parting ways with the player base that has kept this game floating for so long, in hopes of appealing to a more casual market player base.

I for one, just haven't really been trying to do anything in game since the relic blows started coming. I just don't see the point. Its not a worthy trade off in my opinion to invest in anything in game anymore. Where SE is demonstrating that everything they had previously said was out the window, and there was weight given to "normalcy" in vana'diel.

They have done the same thing with the FF series. They turned their backs on their customer base, people like me who enjoyed FF1-FF10, and bought every one of them several times over.

SE is really telling me it doesn't like me as a customer. And that our relationship is coming to an end.
Good luck SE! you're about to see that the grass on the other side isn't any greener.

[Rambus]

I'll tell you one thing; If they make relics more attainable they lose any credibility they had with me, and many other loyal players.
I bit my tongue when after 4 years of grinding 5 jobs to 75 they made it easier to exp. All that time and effort I spent to get ahead and the status I attained inside the community could now be replicated with less than half the effort.

I bit my tongue when they released toAU tp burns and made the mobs a lot easier to tank and kill. All those years of actually learning party dynamics, and being forced to adapt to different types of mobs, out the window. WS>WS>SC>MB dynamics disappeared forever.

I bit my tongue when they made ridiculously easy to level in Abyssea, and released gear that made everything I had spent the previous decade attaining worthless.

The final nail in the coffer is them making the most prestigious class of weapons in a game obsolete, and then pissing on them and all the hard work that went into attaining them by furthering the insult by making them easy to obtain.

Relics, especially the early ones, represent so much more than just a weapon.
No true FFXI player will ever regard empyreans as anything close in novelty or sentiment to relics.
SE is parting ways with the player base that has kept this game floating for so long, in hopes of appealing to a more casual market player base.

I for one, just haven't really been trying to do anything in game since the relic blows started coming. I just don't see the point. Its not a worthy trade off in my opinion to invest in anything in game anymore. Where SE is demonstrating that everything they had previously said was out the window, and there was weight given to "normalcy" in vana'diel.

They have done the same thing with the FF series. They turned their backs on their customer base, people like me who enjoyed FF1-FF10, and bought every one of them several times over.

SE is really telling me it doesn't like me as a customer. And that our relationship is coming to an end.
Good luck SE! you're about to see that the grass on the other side isn't any greener.

stick with it! like i said before I think emp weapons where a mistake, its not the first time i seen shortsidness in making gear ( like any fourm of MAB on weapons, mythic staffs, PW staff)

they make all these random atma buffs and did not realise RR + emp weapon > sick.

here is something in the other thread:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...you-done/page9

point is I do not understand why mythics where made like they where ( SE said relic > mythic > other weapons when they came out) to have a lot of mythics underperform other weapons.

SE has been short sided on this issue for a while, and people are now even more mad about it because of emp weapons now.

The prices of currecy even reflects SE being short sided, even back when relics where the only thing. not all relics where "good". The "good" ones that where done a lot more vs others took a lot of bronze so people sold that type a lot higher then the rest. sandy is not hard, in fact I would call it the easiest one to do.

weapons that are most heavy in bronze ( first weapon on the list takes the most)
Shield (125-30)
Bow(119-30)
club (105-30)
GS (104-30)
sword (104-30)
GKT (103-30)
Gun (62)
staff (62)
Katana (61)
Polorm (61)
horn (60)
great axe (60)

FFXI AH lists:

515 shields
357 scythe
346 GKT
279 dagger
243 horn
148 GA
147 bow
137 sword
95 h2h
92 gun
72 Katana
49 polarm
20 GS
13 club
11 axe
10 staff

total spent:
13 551 300 byne
18 352 700 silver
13 403 800 shell

anyone see a problem with this? there is a ton of silver being spent because the "better" relics eat a lot of them sheild *not so much now i understand that relic shield is not good now*, bow, gun, GKT, horn are the ones that are seen as good out of them, then you can pair up bow/GKT, sword/sheild on one job that makes it even worse if someone is really hard core on those jobs. those 2 pairings of weapons, those 4 all requre gold pieces.