Cure V

[Smp]

Then you wouldn't of made that post.

Sounds like you calling me a liar.

I said I didn't want to debate it but I will at least share my logic behind it...

By its very nature it will have more potency to help a bit more in situations where a tank has been taken into the red.

And as /SCH you can "Accession" + "Cure IV" for the effect of Curaga III etc. without being advisable effected by a long recast delay on "Cure IV"; as you can still cure using "Cure V".

I guess its another route similar to reducing the level of "Curaga III" to below WHM50. But the problem with that is all jobs have access to it. The post is about Red Mage; and giving it access to cure spells it should by its very nature already have access to; not making anybody subbing /WHM be better healers.

[VoiceMemo]

Er, hasn't WHM had CURE VI(6) for a long time already? If RDM gets cure 5, WHM should get cure VII(7)

[saevel]

Er, hasn't WHM had CURE VI(6) for a long time already? If RDM gets cure 5, WHM should get cure VII(7)

Cure VI is rarely used on WHM because of it's stupid cost vs healing power, Cure V is used only if Cure IV isn't up yet. Cure's III and IV are the staple ST cures with Curaga III / IV being the MT versions. The OP has really weak healing sets and thinks getting Cure V, like White Mage, would solve their problem.

The only thing that RDM and SCH are missing to be capable main party healers is a strong form of Multi-Target healing. Right now both are limited to Curaga II and that's only 300~350 HP and just isn't enough to quickly recover from a very bad move. I already can main heal a single tank in high end content on RDM, so it's not a question of that capability.

[Songen]

red mage is a jack of all trades, and a master of none. sch doesn't even get cure 5, even with addendum up (And everyone knows addendum makes sch that style of fighting whether dark or light), so why should rdm get it? as a rdm myself, i don't see why its needed

(This is my opinion)

[Seriha]

WHM also has other perks going for it like gear that returns MP based on amount cured. In the end, that job is where it should be, and needed to be in that dark era where RDMs were the preferred healer, bar none.

That said, whether or not one wants to avoid debate, I personally have no interest in tugging RDM back toward that time. I hate the Jack of All Trades moniker. MMOers don't want Jacks. They want specialists. Being a Jack means you're not a specialist, which means people aren't gonna want you for anything. Simply giving RDMs Cure V isn't going to make us preferred to WHMs, but at the same time, going down that well means skewing the Jack perspective toward the WHM slant. Again, I don't want to go back to that.

Since people want specialists, RDM needs to find that. My stance has been that it should be enfeebling, but we've got the problem going on where RDM doesn't really have any unique enfeebles paired with the difficulty of landing them. That's a problem that needs to be rectified, but not just exclusively through magic. Yeah, I care about RDM's martial aspects, too.

Still, if we really want to run with the Jack angle, the right sub and gear should make us capable as a nuker, healer, or physical attacker without needing thousands of JP just to even be put on the table. Maybe we need better healing gear? Perhaps. I wouldn't say nuking is in a bad state, but if anything, accuracy on harder content would be the concern. Melee? Yeah, gear options are better nowadays, but more can be done to make us more tempting for the role. If SE wants to up their game on enfeebling, of course, disregard the rest of this. Until then, if RDM's white magic arsenal is improved, other facets need it just as much, if not more.

[Jblauh]

Hmm well said Seriha and some good points. While I'm not in particular happy with RDM's position in today's game compared to back in the days I'm going to have to agree with you. Especially with the specialist part and how the community desires just that over the latter. That is just a reality we'll have to accept isn't it. Even if RDM did get a Cure V spell I highly doubt it would be used by the community at all and forgotten as fast as it was given to players. At the end of the day people want a Whm and only the most simple of content with folks accept anything other than just that. Personally I'd love some more diversity in the game. Like War tanking more often and RDM main healing here and there. It's not that that can't happen. As a matter of fact a skilled player wearing the perfect gear could do just that, but yeah. Like you said specialists are what's preferred. I think the communities mindset is more to blame than SE on that subject imo as I've approached content with friends and conquered it with set ups ppl would laugh at.

[Jakuk]

red mage is a jack of all trades, and a master of none. sch doesn't even get cure 5, even with addendum up (And everyone knows addendum makes sch that style of fighting whether dark or light), so why should rdm get it? as a rdm myself, i don't see why its needed

(This is my opinion)

RDM has plenty of spells that SCH needs to use Addendum for...

Dark, Dispel, Sleep II, Elemental Nuke IV, Elemental Nuke V

Addendum doesn't automatically make SCH better than RDM at that art, only grants them more than they have without.

-

I agree with the OP to a point, I don't believe RDM needs Cure V as such, but I do find it dumbfounding that both RDM and SCH's last Curing spells were at level 48 / 55, when the cap is 99 (technically 119)

-

I'd also argue for Regen III, and Reraise and Reraise II as it's still sticking to Master of None but actually upping and adding spells that make little sense to not add, Reraise breaks nothing, and with the little Regen gear Regen III will still be vastly weaker than WHM and SCH's.

WHM also has other perks going for it like gear that returns MP based on amount cured. In the end, that job is where it should be, and needed to be in that dark era where RDMs were the preferred healer, bar none.

That said, whether or not one wants to avoid debate, I personally have no interest in tugging RDM back toward that time. I hate the Jack of All Trades moniker. MMOers don't want Jacks. They want specialists. Being a Jack means you're not a specialist, which means people aren't gonna want you for anything. Simply giving RDMs Cure V isn't going to make us preferred to WHMs, but at the same time, going down that well means skewing the Jack perspective toward the WHM slant. Again, I don't want to go back to that.

Since people want specialists, RDM needs to find that. My stance has been that it should be enfeebling, but we've got the problem going on where RDM doesn't really have any unique enfeebles paired with the difficulty of landing them. That's a problem that needs to be rectified, but not just exclusively through magic. Yeah, I care about RDM's martial aspects, too.

Still, if we really want to run with the Jack angle, the right sub and gear should make us capable as a nuker, healer, or physical attacker without needing thousands of JP just to even be put on the table. Maybe we need better healing gear? Perhaps. I wouldn't say nuking is in a bad state, but if anything, accuracy on harder content would be the concern. Melee? Yeah, gear options are better nowadays, but more can be done to make us more tempting for the role. If SE wants to up their game on enfeebling, of course, disregard the rest of this. Until then, if RDM's white magic arsenal is improved, other facets need it just as much, if not more.

I disagree, adding Cure V doesn't suddenly do that when RDM has got many different spells to buff other aspects already since Cure IV.

Tier IV and Tier V nukes,
Temper and Temper II,
Haste II, Flurry and Flurry II, Inundation
Distract I~III, Frazzle I~III, Addle I-II
Gain spells,
Refresh II and Refresh III

Cure V simply makes more sense as it buffs another aspect of RDM.

RDM is not a specialist and you simply can't make them one without destroying lore, making it one also would not make the job more desirable either. Unless you're asking for OP enfeebles like GEO gets nothing will make an "enfeebler" desired.

[Songen]

I agree with the OP to a point, I don't believe RDM needs Cure V as such, but I do find it dumbfounding that both RDM and SCH's last Curing spells were at level 48 / 55, when the cap is 99 (technically 119)

Actually, sch's healing never ended with cure, it continued with regen 5 with some sch's achieving 100-120hp per tick over 3-7min and making AoE at that, they cure better and are more mp efficient than whm using curaga since this buff will work on everyone as long as they received it at the start, after that they can go anywhere and be at any distance and still get cured,
a 100 per tick regen will yield 300 hp every 9 seconds,
120 is 360 hp every 9 seconds
most CP Mana burn partys will invite a well regen sch over a white mage because they can pop a long duration regen (make it AoE) and they don't have to worry about hp, along with said sch being able to nuke as well.
The tank is continually healed, and everyone who gets hit with a AoE attack don't worry in the least since they will recover it in 6-15 seconds automaticly

[Jblauh]

If you want to make RDM relevant in today's game than honestly the solution (and I know ppl will be upset with me for this) ,but the solution would be to get rid of certain spells for other jobs that RDM should be only allowed to use. Example: Haste II.

I would bet that RDM would always be asked to tag along if Blu or Smn couldn't Haste II. This is coming from someone who plays Blu and SMN 90% of the time to. A minor example but a good one nonetheless. Do I think it should be this way? Well yes and no. It's tough to say. If you want this game to survive then you need to understand that jobs that can fill multiple roles by itself is a mistake. This game was designed for massive cooperative play to overcome obsicles and nothing will change that. Even the best DD like Drk or a Rag wielding War need hasted for maximum damage dealing performance. This keep jobs relevant. When a job like Blu can do nearly all of these things we hit a wall for job relavance. That's just a fact.

Same can be said for debuffing a enemy. This is supposed to be RDMs specialty yet it's not used or even needed in the ways it should be. I remember back in the day in a good exp party a RDM debuffs on a enemy would make killing a incrediblely tough mob so much more approachable. A powerful slow, paralyze, silence was amazing to have. Now it's just not needed. This is a problem. I know the topic is on Cure V, but I think the issue goes so much deeper than that.

[Songen]

If you want to make RDM relevant in today's game than honestly the solution (and I know ppl will be upset with me for this) ,but the solution would be to get rid of certain spells for other jobs that RDM should be only allowed to use. Example: Haste II.

I would bet that RDM would always be asked to tag along if Blu or Smn couldn't Haste II. This is coming from someone who plays Blu and SMN 90% of the time to. A minor example but a good one nonetheless. Do I think it should be this way? Well yes and no. It's tough to say. If you want this game to survive then you need to understand that jobs that can fill multiple roles by itself is a mistake. This game was designed for massive cooperative play to overcome obsicles and nothing will change that. Even the best DD like Drk or a Rag wielding War need hasted for maximum damage dealing performance. This keep jobs relevant. When a job like Blu can do nearly all of these things we hit a wall for job relavance. That's just a fact.

Same can be said for debuffing a enemy. This is supposed to be RDMs specialty yet it's not used or even needed in the ways it should be. I remember back in the day in a good exp party a RDM debuffs on a enemy would make killing a incrediblely tough mob so much more approachable. A powerful slow, paralyze, silence was amazing to have. Now it's just not needed. This is a problem. I know the topic is on Cure V, but I think the issue goes so much deeper than that.

(As a 1200+jp myself replying to this)
actually, people normally cap haste with a geo and brd, and even then the brd isn't needed since the geo can use indi-haste + normal haste1 spell to either cap or near cap it. removing it from smn or blu simply removes other alternatives.

What they should be doing is (buffing immunobreak) making rdm's enfeebles close to geo's spells in the sence it will land 95-100% of the time and have a extended duration and higher potency, (and the 5% is those special NMs that will resist 100% even if its a geo casting it),

Its part of their original bloody manifesto (See below)

SE's original vision for rdm was (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...cap#post145074)
-Red Mage
*Vision
Support specialists who excel at transforming their allies from mere mortals into demigods with their enhancements, while rendering once-formidable enemies impotent with enfeebling magic.

We want to see red mages play a more vital role in HNM battles by making enfeebling magic more effective against high-level notorious monsters and their legendary levels of resistance as well as allowing them to better contribute to party member enhancement.

Example Adjustments
Adding abilities that reduce to zero the casting time or recast time for the next spell/ninjutsu/song.
New enfeebling magic spells.

Pretty much the potency of their enhancing magic that lands on the party should have increased, while enfeeble magic debuffs like anything.
Honestly, they shoulda made temper/II a party spell and en spells a party spell with the potency of en spells increased while being a rdm main.
This alone would make dual wielding jobs a bloody machine if done right, if every hit delt 50-100 dmg more, plus you have have temper for higher tp build, you'd find cor's and smn's out of a job in the sence of enhancing on certain levels