Nerf SMN

[Frodnon]

We have had RUNs in dd gear put up substantial parses in t4 conduits (upwards of 60% of a smn) I have no doubts a <1 minute schah is possible with melee DDs, it would just involve prebuff bards and the melee pouncing at pop.

[Shiyo]

We have had RUNs in dd gear put up substantial parses in t4 conduits (upwards of 60% of a smn) I have no doubts a <1 minute schah is possible with melee DDs, it would just involve prebuff bards and the melee pouncing at pop.

Melee actually are in danger of dying. Ranged classes that completely bypass all boss mechanics shouldn't deal anywhere near the damage of a melee.

Fixing this problem is such an easy thing. I quit this game for 7 months and come back and something like this has been allowed to run rampant for SEVEN months? I'm honestly disgusted - how can developers care so little about their game they'd allow a class to literally GAME SHARK their and completely destroy all of it's difficulty?

Remove AC from the game until it's redesigned. SMN is 100% balanced and fine outside of AC.

[Frodnon]

Melee actually are in danger of dying. Ranged classes that completely bypass all boss mechanics shouldn't deal anywhere near the damage of a melee.

Conduit burns aren't some magic 100% 'i win' buttons, even with the best setup. Schah can AOE and kill a pet or get a debuff off and stop a pet, killing DPS and costing the run. Kouryu can terrorize avatar or player and cost the run. A SMN can, sometimes, recover from that and resummon in time, but it costs usually 4-5 seconds of a 30 second ability.

Putting the blame solely on AC is pretty poor, and ignores all the other balancing issues that contribute to it.

HP scaling mechanics contribute to small party zergs over other setups. If the mob's HP were static, Setups involving melee DD would arguably be much more viable due to how much damage a superbuffed party of DD can put out in 1, 2, or 5 minutes, opposed to the frontloaded 30s of conduit followed by the rapidly falling DPS of post conduit SMN.

Mobs often lack hard stop mechanics. omen caturae, Tumult Curator and oncycophora are good examples of mobs that do have them, Schah is a poor example but does have it. Hard stop abilities like Invincible/Perfect Dodge, HP% Gimmicks like Respawning Kouryu at 50%, Multiple Targets of TC or Schah's DT- while 2+ pets are out All Mitigate a straight zerg. Schah just unfortunately has his be Timer based insted of HP, giving enough of a window to take down.

Odyllic Subterfuge helps to mitigate Debuffs to an extent.
GEO indi-frailty scales damage on pacts greatly.
DA fTP mechanics of Volt Strike gives Nirvana a 30% damage increase (40% total) over the 2nd highest competitor, Was+1 at 9%

[Zeargi]

Melee actually are in danger of dying. Ranged classes that completely bypass all boss mechanics shouldn't deal anywhere near the damage of a melee.

You do realize that all avatars have to be in Melee range to use their Physical Blood Pacts, right? Avatars have substantially less HP than players and other pets outside of Wyverns. They are still susceptible to all status debuffs including Amnesia, ATT/MACC/ACC/DEF/etc Down with them having a slightly higher resistance to elemental debuffs that are their elements or the ones they're strong versus (E.I. Leviathan and Ifrit are slightly less likely to get Amnesia) So, meaning that if an Avatar dies or is inflicted with something that prevents their actions like stun/terror/amnesia/petrify/etc then AC basically becomes useless because it only lasts for 30s.

Again, this isn't solely a SMN problem. Summoner burns are nothing new. I've said it before: The old Promy Fight, Those were SMN burned. Waking the Beast: Alliance of solely SMNs. The problems is that the game has shifted so hard to punish melee fighting with extreme AoEs and spamming of things like Full Clears of Debuffs. To add on top of all this, most enemies HP Skyrocket to unGodly amounts with more people that you bring. The problem is that this MMO punishes you for playing with other people. Nerfing SMN isn't what needs to happen. the Nerfing that should be looked at is the redesigning of the MOBS themselves.

[Shiyo]

You do realize that all avatars have to be in Melee range to use their Physical Blood Pacts, right? Avatars have substantially less HP than players and other pets outside of Wyverns. They are still susceptible to all status debuffs including Amnesia, ATT/MACC/ACC/DEF/etc Down with them having a slightly higher resistance to elemental debuffs that are their elements or the ones they're strong versus (E.I. Leviathan and Ifrit are slightly less likely to get Amnesia) So, meaning that if an Avatar dies or is inflicted with something that prevents their actions like stun/terror/amnesia/petrify/etc then AC basically becomes useless because it only lasts for 30s.

Again, this isn't solely a SMN problem. Summoner burns are nothing new. I've said it before: The old Promy Fight, Those were SMN burned. Waking the Beast: Alliance of solely SMNs. The problems is that the game has shifted so hard to punish melee fighting with extreme AoEs and spamming of things like Full Clears of Debuffs. To add on top of all this, most enemies HP Skyrocket to unGodly amounts with more people that you bring. The problem is that this MMO punishes you for playing with other people. Nerfing SMN isn't what needs to happen. the Nerfing that should be looked at is the redesigning of the MOBS themselves.

What is with this summoner main mindset? You don't REDESIGN the entire game because >>ONE SINGLE JOB<< out 22 can completely obliterate the game and nearly game shark through it with ease. That's completely insane - do you honestly expect such a small developer team to redesign the ENTIRE game because of a SINGLE job?

Anyways, more onto your point. Pets can be indefinitely resummoned without res weakness, players cannot.

[saevel]

You do realize that all avatars have to be in Melee range to use their Physical Blood Pacts, right?

Ok compromise, every time an avatar is defeated the SMN is inflicted with a 5 minute weakness effect and has all their buffs removed. Also we reduce the pet -DT cap to 50%.

[Nyarlko]

Ok compromise, every time an avatar is defeated the SMN is inflicted with a 5 minute weakness effect and has all their buffs removed. Also we reduce the pet -DT cap to 50%.

Limit that to "Avatars" at least. There is no reason that BST/DRG/PUP need to get nerfed.

[Rwolf]

To be honest, there are a least a handful of jobs soloing Reisenjima T3. Search for T3 solo videos. I've seen BLU and SCH soloing them off the top of my head. Haven't seen SMN but I don't discount it. Without being super charged by a GEO and COR, I don't see it capable of melting a T3 and avoiding mechanics altogether solo.

[Urmom]

Thought only a couple of the T3s have been done. Like when looking for vids as suggested all I see Neak solo by sch and a Yakshi solo by smn who also solod Onychophora (neither of which are "super charged" vids). And I've heard tell of blu doing Neak but haven't seen it but enough people say they do it so I'll buy it

How exactly do you use a geo and still solo? Bubbles wear on pop don't they? Not sure about Neak but the idea on Yakshi is mostly to kill fast enough your odds of getting hit by something fight ending go decently down and for Maju to go slow and steady at never let it get enough tp to go glow eyes

Regardless of other jobs doing wasn't really the point I was countering. I was countering this idea that you need an army of them or something when really you don't need

[Hawklaser]

Regardless of other jobs doing wasn't really the point I was countering. I was countering this idea that you need an army of them or something when really you don't need

While don't need an army of them to do it, it is still telling that they are one of the first things people try for harder content to get past it easily.

After all, how often do you hear something is hard so lets throw more of generic DDs at it? Such as thf, drg, non-Kclub drks. It is almost always Smn that is sought. Blm, Rng, and Sam are the other main ones sought over the game's lifespan, thanks to the raw amount of burst they can do compared to others.