Dual Wield yes,please

[Kensagaku]

What in general hurts you about not getting Dual Wield? I feel it's unnecessary as well. Why do we need DW, even DW1, when all you just want is two axes while playing whatever sub you want? Each job has its unique niche; BST's main role (regardless of what people see nowadays) is the use of pets (via jugs or charm) in order to deal damage and fight enemies. Our role isn't to be dextrously wielding two weapons.

-NIN gets away with it because Dual Wield has been a NIN trait since like FFV.
-BLU gets it because of their ability to have a bit of everything from their setting of monster spells.
-DNC and THF are more dextrous, giving them the ability to easily wield two weapons; this is a stretched argument, and honestly I feel that since most of them still sub NIN anyway, it was somewhat pointless except for the fact that DNC has a higher tier of DW.

The only reason people want DW is so that they can still do their two-axes thing while playing a different sub. Unfortunately, sometimes you have to sacrifice something to get something else. That's why RDM (to give an example) has to choose between Divine Seal (double cure potency helps a lot!) and natural -nas from /WHM, Stratagems including AoE versions of their spells and JA-allowed -nas from /SCH, or Elemental Seal and Stun and Sleepga which they could all benefit from /BLM. You have to make choices; you can't have everything just on the argument that "others have it, why don't we?"

[Alukat]

but SE stated that they want ppl to try other sub job combinations, sadly can't find that post atm, but with all the trial axes it is neccessary for bst to have DW I. if it hasn't it ppl will always stay a /dnc & /nin for the benefits of 2 axes.
/nin is pretty useless beside DW I

and I WANT TO TRY other combinations. now why do u always have to buggering my gameplay style ,because of you are of those main stream /dnc or /nin?

Ninja edit: when i was doing trial i just needed /nin for DW, never casted utsusemi once.
that is a waste of potency in that job
Edit2: /dnc yeah it is cool if u need to waste tp for steps, when u could use them for ws
/whm u have cure and u still get the potency out of 2 axes and u won't have to waste tp for steps & waltzes

[Untamedheart]

Sub cor and sub brd are really terrible and shouldn't really be used ever for bst.

With cor sub, you are looking at getting 1 roll at half potency only as there is a penalty to cor rolls when buffing higher level targets. A subbed cor treats your roll as coming from a level 45 corsair.

With brd sub, you are looking at 3.5% haste gained from advancing march, perhaps a little more as that is from a 37 sub. Even at 45 sub, I don't think it will come anywhere near 5% you can get from haste samba.

Overall if you want to buff the party, a 5% haste samba would outdo either of those subs assuming there isn't another source of samba within the PT.

What I really wish is that they would unnerf samba. Does anyone remember when samba used to affect pets when they first released Wings of the Goddess? I never really understood why they nerfed it. It wasn't really that broken and I hope they reconsider.

[Alukat]

well, i used /brd and proc'd yellow >.>
sadly my pet had to eat lots of dmg because i couldn't wield 2 axes ><

[Untamedheart]

well, i used /brd and proc'd yellow >.>
sadly my pet had to eat lots of dmg because i couldn't wield 2 axes ><

You could have subbed nin and pretty much still had the same chance at a yellow proc?

[Alukat]

not in a pt with blu/nin blm/rdm whm/sch

[Untamedheart]

All I can say is, asking for a job trait for a situation as niche as this is unnecessary. If you sub brd for an extra chance to proc yellow, there is a price to pay for that and fair is fair. I will stop arguing at this point.

[Alukat]

holy shit, i just don't want it for proc, i want to discover more possible options this will give.seems i have to stay a main stream player /sigh

edit: i want finally see only 1 good argument that bst shouldn't get it.
all u do is your personal experience and because u are so into /dnc & /nin , that's why u are so stuck in it ><

[Kensagaku]

but SE stated that they want ppl to try other sub job combinations, sadly can't find that post atm, but with all the trial axes it is neccessary for bst to have DW I. if it hasn't it ppl will always stay a /dnc & /nin for the benefits of 2 axes.
/nin is pretty useless beside DW I

and I WANT TO TRY other combinations. now why do u always have to buggering my gameplay style ,because of you are of those main stream /dnc or /nin?

Ninja edit: when i was doing trial i just needed /nin for DW, never casted utsusemi once.
that is a waste of potency in that job
Edit2: /dnc yeah it is cool if u need to waste tp for steps, when u could use them for ws
/whm u have cure and u still get the potency out of 2 axes and u won't have to waste tp for steps & waltzes

holy shit, i just don't want it for proc, i want to discover more possible options this will give.seems i have to stay a main stream player /sigh

edit: i want finally see only 1 good argument that bst shouldn't get it.
all u do is your personal experience and because u are so into /dnc & /nin , that's why u are so stuck in it ><

Bolded the above section that I wanted to address first. First off, it is never necessary to have two axes. Yes, it is the most efficient, and the most useful. But it is not "necessary." All you're asking for is an easy mode. You want to see "one good argument" yet you seem to have completely overlooked my post. Let me quote it here:

The only reason people want DW is so that they can still do their two-axes thing while playing a different sub. Unfortunately, sometimes you have to sacrifice something to get something else. That's why RDM (to give an example) has to choose between Divine Seal (double cure potency helps a lot!) and natural -nas from /WHM, Stratagems including AoE versions of their spells and JA-allowed -nas from /SCH, or Elemental Seal and Stun and Sleepga which they could all benefit from /BLM. You have to make choices; you can't have everything just on the argument that "others have it, why don't we?"

The argument is that you can't have everything. You have to make sacrifices in order to gain other things. You want to be able to dual-wield axes while being able to cure yourself? Use /DNC. Unfortunately you have to sacrifice TP. You want to heal without wasting that TP? Go /WHM or /RDM. You sacrifice dual-wield. You want survivability but don't necessarily need healing? Go /NIN for shadows to tide you over if you need to summon a new pet or kite during a Call Beast/Reward Recast timer. You sacrifice the ability to have curing spells.

The reason that this system of sacrificing some aspects to gain others exists is to create a game balance. SE is encouraging people to try different subjobs, but people are so fixated on "you must have two axes" that you're completely contradicting yourself. If you want to try more subjobs, then do it. You'll have to deal with the sacrifices of losing dual wield or some other aspect of a job that makes them unique.

Easy mode isn't the answer here. No job can have everything; all jobs have their pros and cons, their strengths and their weaknesses. And until I see a good justification as for why BST must have Dual-wield besides the "we need two axes!" line that's merely a mainstream BST thing (and weren't you complaining about being a mainstream BST?), this is the stance I'm taking.

Edit: And before you call ME a mainstream BST, I actually like going out and playing /WHM and /RDM now and again. I keep my Tatami shield around just for that reason; you don't always need Dual Wield.

Afterthought edit: Also, you actually CAN get Dual Wield outside of those subs btw. Get the Dual Wield augment on your ACP body and go to town; it grants dual wield, and it's less than DW1. There you go, two axes, play with different subs. Have fun.

[Alukat]

talking about game balance, then wtf has SE done to dnc.
its totally overpowered.
nin/dnc or dnc/nin can solo almost everything >.>
75 Evasion Bonus III
(75) Closed Position (Merit)
77 Conserve TP
77 Tactical Parry
80 Critical Attack Bonus
80 Dual Wield IV
80 Accuracy Bonus III
84 Skillchain Bonus IV
85~90 Subtle Blow IV
~90? Critical Attack Bonus II

way too many usefull job traits at 75+, dnc has everything it needs at 75+.

and with DW I i would have to sacrifice 15% DW