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  1. #1
    Player Shiyo's Avatar
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    Jun 2011
    Posts
    705
    Character
    Kitori
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    NIN Lv 99

    Bosses obscene magical evasion levels

    Hi. It seems that nearly every boss in this game has very high magical evasion, and as you fight harder(higher level) bosses the obscene levels of magical evasion they have only goes up and up.

    I find this an unfun mechanic. All it does is make it so that half your spellbook on many jobs is simply unusable. You can't use most of your abilities because they simply won't land and there's no point in wasting time(potential DPS) trying to cast them. I find that this removes a lot of depth from the game and makes a lot of jobs less interesting to play because they can't use 75% of their tools just because of obscene magical evasion levels.

    No debuffs in this game are so overpowered to render enemies worthless and turn them into jokes, so why have such obscene levels of magical evaison? Actually, there are debuffs that strong, BUT THEY CANNOT BE RESISTED(geo debuffs). What sense does it make to have geo debuffs, the strongest most overpowered debuffs in the entire game be unresistable, but things like yurin, aisha, slow, paralyze, frazzle, addle be so difficult to land on enemies? It doesn't make sense.


    There's also the problem of certain jobs, like RDM, that is supposed to be the "Master enfeebler" but they can't actually do their job of enfeebling because they cannot land their debuffs on enemies due to these obscene magical evasion rates. Their debuffs are powerful, yes, however their debuffs wouldn't completely destroy enemies so why make them so hard to land? Their debuffs are simply useful and helpful, they do not turn a mob into a walking target dummy or anything if they could land reliably, and would potentially add depth and strategy to fighting mobs.

    I would really like to use things such as full break, aisha/yurin, para, slow, addle, absorb spells, etc but bosses have such crazy magical evasion rates that these rarely land on anything high level and aren't worth the time to cast. This removes a lot of potential buttons I can press and ends up making it so you just don't press a lot of your buttons, thus removing depth, strategy, and potential new ways to play and kill bosses. I find this unfun.

    Can something please be done about bosses obscene magical evasion rates? Perhaps increasing the magical accuracy of enfeebles globally(as to not buff magical damage land rates, only debuffs) or something? I would really, really love to be able to use fun niche/utility spells on bosses just for fun and maybe to try new things and to add depth to the games combat system!
    (11)
    Last edited by Shiyo; 01-02-2017 at 02:20 AM.

  2. #2
    Player zataz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    the land of nod
    Posts
    163
    Character
    Cardgrey
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    totally agree with this..... with one question what boss in this game isnt a total joke with or without a geo honestly.
    (0)

  3. #3
    Player Elexia's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok/Phoenix
    Posts
    666
    Quote Originally Posted by zataz View Post
    totally agree with this..... with one question what boss in this game isnt a total joke with or without a geo honestly.
    All new ilvl content is designed with ilvl gear/mastery in mind.
    Almost all pre-ilvl content isn't designed with ilvl gear/job mastery in mind.

    The other side of the equation, players, aren't being taken into consideration as to why monsters have insanely high stats. If you want to use "gimmicky" and "fun" debuffs, you have to understand they'll then have to rebalance Blue Mage's entire arsenal because there's A LOT of gimmicky and "fun" spells they have that were useless even in the 75 era.
    (1)
    Dark Knight ~ 90: Yes I actually use a Scythe.

  4. #4
    Player zataz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    the land of nod
    Posts
    163
    Character
    Cardgrey
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    lol that's the thing. the people i roll with 98% of "content" as u put it. we don't need a geo for and we manage to down it. and ya we don't depend on welfare gear and try to do 150ish fights in it. sometimes its the quality of players and not the content that is a issue.
    (0)
    Last edited by zataz; 01-02-2017 at 08:26 PM.

  5. #5
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
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    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,547
    Character
    Nyarlko
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Elexia View Post
    All new ilvl content is designed with ilvl gear/mastery in mind.
    Almost all pre-ilvl content isn't designed with ilvl gear/job mastery in mind.

    The other side of the equation, players, aren't being taken into consideration as to why monsters have insanely high stats. If you want to use "gimmicky" and "fun" debuffs, you have to understand they'll then have to rebalance Blue Mage's entire arsenal because there's A LOT of gimmicky and "fun" spells they have that were useless even in the 75 era.
    Monster stats are insanely high because their levels are insanely high compared to players. Physical accuracy requirements increase at a linear +34 per level above ours in clvl content and odds are good that magical accuracy requirements behave similarly, though we have a rather poor understanding of macc mechanics compared to acc so no idea what the macc number is. I fully agree that RDM in particular should have some form of greatly increased accuracy for Enfeebling Skill based magic and can see no reasons to not allow RDM to more easily land debuffs than other jobs by default. They kinda are supposed to be the debuff kings after all...
    (2)
    “That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.”

  6. #6
    Player OmnysValefor's Avatar
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    Oct 2012
    Posts
    1,186
    Actually, M.acc has always seemed easier than physical accuracy in escha, much easier and that's a portion (the others being obscene AOEs, a game that just favored mages) of the reason that so many NM's were killed with mages for so long. T3 Rei NMs physical accuracy requirements nearly required everything a GEO COR and (non-aeonic, at least) BRD could give you and it was made harder on 2h jobs who couldn't offhand a jse weapon (for the great accuracy augments) or great gear like Taming Saris, and weren't getting the natural dex / accuracy advantage that leather seems to have.

    Mages also gain magic accuracy from magic bursts, which melee have never had anything similar to. Skillchains do not lower the target's physical evasion. One of the advantages that mages also had is that the component' spells of a scholar's skillchain can basically "miss". They can do 0 damage from a double-weak scholar (I killed my friend once, to test this) and the skillchain takes full effect. Where melee need to get TP, land the ws, to make the skillchain. Scholars are limited only by time constraints.

    I haven't had undue magic accuracy problems when I was gearing up and friends that I've helped gear up also have not, at least not before probably t3 Rei and magic accuracy.

    The problem, I think, is that there isn't a proper path on quiet little servers like mine and OP's Valefor, for people freshly gearing up. You might find one or two people that want to gear up but they give up due to boredom or frustration. The flip-side is recent newcomers tend to have Jhakri +1 )****), which is a lot of the groundwork for a Ru'aun ready BLM. People that are able to take something like that path, that work with an ls also gearing up, have done just fine. The fun once you find such a group is making sure the players can play their jobs properly (the tanks can hold hate, the healers can watch debuffs, BLMs capable of double-nuking off MBs.

    And you need people that are willing to come on the best jobs they can and not exclusively stick to what they want to play. (I do know that it's a game, and 'job' is merely a term for class, but bringing ideal strategies to hard content for your group has always been part of XI. No fresh sky ls 6-manned byakko for their first kill.

    **** I absolutely believe past ambuscade sets should be more readily available and SE has agreed with that sentiment from the community in the past.
    (0)
    Last edited by OmnysValefor; 01-03-2017 at 10:51 AM.

  7. #7
    Player Shiyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    705
    Character
    Kitori
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    NIN Lv 99
    The topic is about enfeebling/debuffs, not nuking/magic bursting.
    (0)

  8. #8
    Player OmnysValefor's Avatar
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    Oct 2012
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    1,186
    I wish you had highlighted that then, the second half of your post is about enfeebles, but you just generally talk about magic evasion.

    I think they bigger problem with enfeebles, and why it's just kinda disappointing, is they've designed content so that the classic 3 just don't matter that much so we end up with bosses with bizarre mechanics like the Omen boss who just does 2500 damage * players/pets/geo bubbles bypassing apparently all forms of DT.

    Mage-oriented strategies are just so superior that Paralyze and Slow just aren't missed.

    When we do go meleee (the community) we strive to make sure the bos doesn't get tp or we go zerg-nuts on it.

    Classic XI is gone. I miss some of it too.
    (0)

  9. #9
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
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    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,547
    Character
    Nyarlko
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by OmnysValefor View Post
    I wish you had highlighted that then, the second half of your post is about enfeebles, but you just generally talk about magic evasion.

    I think they bigger problem with enfeebles, and why it's just kinda disappointing, is they've designed content so that the classic 3 just don't matter that much so we end up with bosses with bizarre mechanics like the Omen boss who just does 2500 damage * players/pets/geo bubbles bypassing apparently all forms of DT.

    Mage-oriented strategies are just so superior that Paralyze and Slow just aren't missed.

    When we do go meleee (the community) we strive to make sure the bos doesn't get tp or we go zerg-nuts on it.

    Classic XI is gone. I miss some of it too.
    I feel that a bigger reason to the lowered priority/impact of most enfeebles is that the TP gain system has not been adjusted to accommodate modern delay capped meleeing. Paralyze/Slow both were important when bosses did significant white damage. Put two+ delay capped melees on one nowadays and they won't do much besides spam TP moves due to the incredibly high TP feed, maybe with 1-2 melee swings in between. Since Para/Slow don't affect TP moves at all, they have far less impact on overall incoming damage. Add on the painfully high meva required due to the target being 15-30 levels over you in order to just land enfeebles, and they become rather unattractive for most groups. It would hurt absolutely nothing balance-wise to increase the base accuracy of Enfeebling Skill based magic, and it might actually help bring RDM back out of the shadows, but that would also have to be only the first step in a series of changes to make enfeebling (and non-zerg melee strats) worthwhile once again.

    Something to think about: Even though GEO debuffs are un-resistable and have potentially REALLY high debuff values, when was the last time you saw someone use something like Indi-Paralyze for group content? ^^;; Increasing macc alone will make us feel better about using them, but will probably need some further adjustments before they become important again outside of gimmick fights like Maju.

    I am in full support of those adjustments being made btw. XD
    (1)
    “That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.”

  10. #10
    Player Shiyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    705
    Character
    Kitori
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    NIN Lv 99
    TP feed isn't actually a thing, and hasn't been for a while. Every boss has obscene levels of regain.
    (3)

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