Recently returned but having trouble getting into post 99 content, please advise ...

[Diavolo]

Edit: If any of my friends who left the game come back and look for me, I'll still be on Leviathan. I play very seldom, usually just enough to solo/duo NQ ambuscade gear, and maybe some other random stuff once in a while. There would be no positives for me to switch to Asura to make up for the negative of missing an old returning friend.

Never added them to Friend's List or kept in touch with them outside of the game? Life's too short to spend it waiting around for players that may never return. I'd love to see some of my old friends and LS mates, but the way things have changed chances are that we'll run across each other on Asura if they return. Already came across a handful of people I knew from the 75 cap era here and they likely won't be the last.

Leviathan's English speaking pop wasn't all that high last I saw, not much better than Cerberus from what I could tell. Surprised two players would find themselves fighting over Jaculus of all things.

[detlef]

Except I'm not. Don't mistake the expression of my opinion as some sort of attempt to speak on behalf of everyone.

Very good. I acknowledge that you are expressing our opinion, albeit so strongly that it comes off as if it were an indisputable fact.

but I refuse to accept the idea that your quality of life would diminish if you were able to carry everyone you knew over to the largest server.

I'm not arguing that it would definitely diminish. Rather, I'm arguing that it could diminish, either for me or for another player. All I've ever argued is that it's possible that the situation isn't right for every player.

You obviously have strong ties to your server. I tried to downplay the natural fear associated with moving by including your social circles in the theoretical situation and still you resist the idea, so there's something else at play there.

Okay.

Oh, also you asked for something that couldn't be done on Asura. I'm not sure if this qualifies (and it's not like you asked me) but I doubt I could've accomplished this there:

[Folken]

Never added them to Friend's List or kept in touch with them outside of the game?

Some, yes, but obviously not everyone. Lost touch with some due to various circumstances.

Leviathan's English speaking pop wasn't all that high last I saw, not much better than Cerberus from what I could tell. Surprised two players would find themselves fighting over Jaculus of all things.

Not sure what the english population has to do with anything, but if I run into someone at Jaculus on Leviathan, what does that tell me about Asura?

[Diavolo]

Not sure what the english population has to do with anything, but if I run into someone at Jaculus on Leviathan, what does that tell me about Asura?

Fair assumption, but it's nowhere near that bad here. I might have a little more enjoyment making my way around Vana'diel if it was as I got a thrill out of competing for claims in the old days.

[Afania]

This isn't a comparison of Japan, Canada and the United States or whatever real world analogy gets brought up.

I kept using Japan, Canada and the US real world analogy to describe the fact that each server has their own unique "culture" within them, despite some may think FFXI servers all operate under the same rule.

Example, here is an example that anyone can easily verify by using FFXIAH or log on on an Asura mule. On Asura there's an unique /yell culture that only exists on Asura, and only exists since recent years. If one person /yell something in public channel, it'd turn into chains of "conversations" that could last for more than an hour, and some of these "conversations" are either jokes/troll/politic talks/LS drama. There are people that creates mules with unique names just to join those "conversations". I consider this culture unique to Asura because I've never notice this trend happen on any other server, including some of the bigger ones, at least not as frequently. And it's also irrelevant to server size, even in 75 days when each server has 3k players, conversations in public chat never happen nearly as frequently nor last as long. Safe to say that this "culture" was developed on 2017 Asura because of time, circumstances and synergy between people.

And this kind of cultural differences, does affect one individual's server choice because everyone has different preferences. One individual may love yell conversations, thus love Asura and play there. One individual may dislike yell conversations, but still prefers faster character progress, in that case he'd still prefer Asura but just /blist everyone and their mules used in yells. Or one individual may dislike yell conversations, and doesn't play for character progression, in that case he'd prefer another server that's not Asura because he gains no advantage on Asura, only disadvantages.

I see people kept ignoring how each server's unique culture affects an individual's choice when making an argument in this discussion. One person's point of view about "quality of life" could be vastly different from the others. Hell, some people may play FFXI just to get "NA server first clear" bragging right, and he found his group has higher chance to obtain this title on a 300 people server than a 1000 people server, thus prefer a 300 people server. Don't laugh, I really know one person in this game talk about "server first!" all the time.

This also applies to 2006 FFXI v.s 2017, and FFXI v.s other MMO. People kept oversimplify things without considering unique circumstances that exists from individual to individual, server to server, content to content and more importantly MMO to MMO.

Here is another example:

I recall in one of the conversation on FFXIAH forums, someone mentioned that there's a lot more data flow(or whatever more technical terms that should be used) in post 2015 era than 2006 era, due to faster game pace and more gear swapping, and possibly more gears. I mean, with GS people swap 3 sets of gear per second these days, min max sets to an extreme point, and WS every 5 sec, in 2006 did we even swap gears? How long does it takes to WS? I wouldn't be surprised if a 400 people server in 2017 ended up having more data flow than 5000 people server in 2006 just because we swap gears much, much, much faster.

This extra data flow may cause more stress to the server. While the server may be able to support 10000 players in 2006, this may not be the case now. Although we'll never know unless we're SE ITs.

Content wise, 2017 contents are also very different from 2006.

When we have all these discussions, it's really just not possible to just use 2006 FFXI as a holy grail or text book standard and tell people "but everything is the same!!!". Different server culture, different technical limitations, different content. Everything is
different, too different to make a fair comparison to determine the ideal server size, let alone making claims like it's universal facts.

[Jin_Uzuki]

Example, here is an example that anyone can easily verify by using FFXIAH or log on on an Asura mule. On Asura there's an unique /yell culture that only exists on Asura, and only exists since recent years. If one person /yell something in public channel, it'd turn into chains of "conversations" that could last for more than an hour, and some of these "conversations" are either jokes/troll/politic talks/LS drama. There are people that creates mules with unique names just to join those "conversations". I consider this culture unique to Asura because I've never notice this trend happen on any other server, including some of the bigger ones, at least not as frequently. And it's also irrelevant to server size, even in 75 days when each server has 3k players, conversations in public chat never happen nearly as frequently. Safe to say that this "culture" was developed on 2017 Asura because of time, circumstances and synergy between people.

That's not Asura culture. That's "there are a lot of people online and running around culture". Of course it happened less because /yell was not a thing , but shout conversations in Aht Ughan Whitegate were certainly a thing. /yell conversation don't happen in low pop server not because of "culture" but because with 300 people running around, with half of them being mules or afk.

That happened in 2006, less so because /yell was not a thing, but certainly happen. Hell, it happened on your own server and I can that because I was on Ragnarok on 2007 and I played on that server for years (One I still remember after all these years was World Cup shout fights). Shouts "drama" or "conversations" are nothing new.

Or one individual may dislike yell conversations, and doesn't play for character progression, in that case he'd prefer another server that's not Asura because he gains no advantage on Asura, only disadvantages.

Like what, panics attacks for /yell? Why are you being so dramatic?


The only "culture" that exists in FFXI is "current game culture" and it's generally shared by all servers. Maybe some servers are exclusively ERP, but I'm not privy to that.

[Afania]

That's not Asura culture. That's "there are a lot of people online and running around culture". Of course it happened less because /yell was not a thing ,

Yell function was implemented before 2012 if I remember correctly. By 2013 the function is already usable in many areas.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...highlight=Yell

At 2013~2014, most of the servers still had 1k population and yet conversations rarely happen. In fact there were forum posts asking why people don't "chat" in public channels like other MMO. I vaguely recalled even in early 2015 a good weekend Ragnarok population still spikes over 1k and yet there were little, or less conversations. On the other hand, Asura didn't become dominate NA server until something like 2015, when more and more people started transferring there. Before that the population gap between servers were much smaller. And yet yell conversation was never, ever, ever a thing regardless of server. Not on Ragnarok when it had 1k pop, not on Asura in early 2015 nor even late 2015. It only happened post 2016, and gets progressively more noticeable in late 2016. I'm 100% certain this culture is irrelevant to populations.

I personally believe the reason why conversations didn't happen as often back then is because of JPs. Some JP seems to believe it's impolite to chat in public. In FFXI servers were mostly dominate by JP community back then, so public conversations were less acceptable and mostly done by NA, even then it's just some.

As NA population gets more and more dominate on Asura, public conversations may just be more socially acceptable than how it used to be.

In other words, you can have 3k population, but there's still a chance that conversation may not happen depending on who's in the server. Hell on JP prime during free campaign, Rag still spiked past 800 in the weekend, quite close to 1000. And yet shout channels only has recruit shouts 98% of time.

That happened in 2006, less so because /yell was not a thing, but certainly happen.

People chat with shout in town in 75 era yes, but none of them ever become 1-2 hour long "conversation" from my experience. The /yell conversation on Asura was definitely a unique case.

That happened in 2006, less so because /yell was not a thing, but certainly happen. Hell, it happened on your own server and I can that because I was on Ragnarok on 2007 and I played on that server for years (One I still remember after all these years was World Cup shout fights). Shouts "drama" or "conversations" are nothing new.

Even if some people shout for world cup fights occasionally like you said, it certainly didn't happen as often as Asura late 2016 to 2017. In fact it happened way less often in early 2015s.

Like what, panics attacks for /yell? Why are you being so dramatic?

No one is "dramatic" about yells, lol. But surely people could have the freedom to CHOOSE not to see them, no?

The only "culture" that exists in FFXI is "current game culture" and it's generally shared by all servers.

Again, this is an extremely generalized statement when it comes to the term culture. Every different group has their own culture regardless where you are. Even in a same school, different classes have different behaviors. Some classes are more quiet, some are more noisy. And the difference is very noticeable if you pay attention. This rl examples applies to FFXI, or any MMO, or anywhere where communities exists. Every LS culture are different, every server culture are different. How can you possibly make such claim that every group/server/ls whatever are the same? Unless we have different definition to the term culture. In this entire argument you basically just pop on the forum and claim all communities are the same no matter where they are.

You know, the term "culture" is broader than that.

[Jin_Uzuki]

People chat with shout in town in 75 era yes, but none of them ever become 1-2 hour long "conversation" from my experience. The /yell conversation on Asura was definitely a unique case.

Because /yell was not a thing. I'm not sure what 2 hours conversation did you witness (Boy, you sure do pay attention to Asura chat even if you are not there, what's up that?) but I know for experience that shouts drama are nothing new.

There is no "culture" about. All you need is people willing to chat. Active people.

No one is "dramatic" about yells, lol. But surely people could have the freedom to CHOOSE not to see them, no?

And if they happen to see them what happen exactly? If they don't need shouts, they can carry on. If they do, then a low pop server is even worse worse for that person because sometimes there are 5 hours between one shout and another. Heck, by your own admission you can't stop looking at Asura chat.

It's not an issue unless you try to make so. Stop trying to make a negative every issue to justify some stances. Not finding every mandy outside of Adoulin is also an issue if you want, but it's not one worth making and certainly not one that is worth trading for all the plus everyone indirectly benefit from having 1000 players.

Again, this is an extremely generalized statement when it comes to the term culture

No, it's not. You are talking about SERVERS. It's where people LOG TO PLAY. Compare it to real-life culture is downright... I don't know, completely not a good comparison.

I barely notice a different with 2007 Ragnarok and 2014+ servers I played beyond the current endgame rules and setups and changed that were brought by the new gameplay.

[OmnysValefor]

Jin is right, shout and yell conversations happened in Whitegate and Jeuno fairly often in 2007 through 2012 on Kujata and Valefor (Kujata merged to Valefor).

---

I hope people are aware that plenty of people on other servers are very geared right? If we go by ffxiah (not everyone's gear is visible on ffxiah), Odin and Ragnarok dominate the top positions.

I'll be completely honest: Valefor has no server culture. Noone ever LFG's, most people are afk. We have one person that loves to yell nonsense and most of the server has blacklisted him. I generally only type in ls chat and party chat.

I haven't "made a friend" on Valefor in a year and, if they didn't delete me when they transferred, more of my friendlist is on Asura than on Valefor.

[detlef]

I'm glad you stick around Omny even though it's a net negative because you make other people quit.