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  1. #1
    Player Shiyo's Avatar
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    Jun 2011
    Posts
    705
    Character
    Kitori
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    NIN Lv 99

    DW vs 2h jobs is nearly perfectly balanced

    For the first time in FFXI history both 2h and DW jobs, and even SINGLE WIELD(fencer warrior) are finally all within 5-10% of eachother! The balance is great!

    However, if you keep buffing 2h jobs, it's just going to go back to the old days of 2h only. All three of the weapon types(fencer, dw, 2h) have their niches and are all around equally useful and good. The new grip from Omen called "Utu grip" with the stats listed below is completely insane:

    HP+70 Accuracy+30 Attack+30 Weapon skill DEX +10%


    This grip might change things and make 2h the default choice for DD again, though, which isn't good. Yes, the grip adds a 10% dex modifier to all your WS when equipped.

    Please stop buffing 2h jobs. They do not need anymore buffs, they are perfectly fine how they are. The player base is just very slow at catching on to how powerful jobs actually are.


    Sincerely, a 2h job main player.

    edit: I forgot h2h jobs exist.
    (1)
    Last edited by Shiyo; 12-17-2016 at 01:45 PM.

  2. #2
    Player BBWallace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    119
    Character
    Topace
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 99
    Oh please. FIX VICTORY SMITE.

    Just because your 2h weapon does good don't speak for the other jobs.
    (2)

  3. #3
    Player saevel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,350
    Character
    Saevel
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiyo View Post
    For the first time in FFXI history both 2h and DW jobs, and even SINGLE WIELD(fencer warrior) are finally all within 5-10% of eachother! The balance is great!

    However, if you keep buffing 2h jobs, it's just going to go back to the old days of 2h only. All three of the weapon types(fencer, dw, 2h) have their niches and are all around equally useful and good. The new grip from Omen called "Utu grip" with the stats listed below is completely insane:

    HP+70 Accuracy+30 Attack+30 Weapon skill DEX +10%


    This grip might change things and make 2h the default choice for DD again, though, which isn't good. Yes, the grip adds a 10% dex modifier to all your WS when equipped.

    Please stop buffing 2h jobs. They do not need anymore buffs, they are perfectly fine how they are. The player base is just very slow at catching on to how powerful jobs actually are.


    Sincerely, a 2h job main player.

    No they aren't balanced but their not that far apart either.

    The primary difference is not the jobs but the Weapon Skills available to each Weapon Type. Some weapon types have weapon skills that can easily be exploited and buffed while others are difficult and lack such weapon skills. Different jobs have access to different weapon types and this means that whichever job can exploit a weapon type can use that exploit for damage, if the job isn't able to exploit a weapon skill then it's stuck at the end of the line.

    Weapon types with Exploitable Weapon Skills

    Sword (several exploitable WS's)
    Dagger (several exploitable WS's)
    Great Sword (Resolution)
    Axe (Mistral / Cloud Splitter)
    Marksmanship (Leaden, Trueflight, Last Stand)
    Polearm (Stardiver)
    Katana (Ten / Hi / Shun)
    Club (Judgement, Black Halo, Hexa, Realmrazor)

    Weapon types without Exploitable Weapon Skills

    Great Axe
    Scythe
    H2H
    Great Katana (SAM's can link them and exploit SC bonus's though so they sidestep the issue)
    Staff

    This creates the situation where SAM and DRG are good but WAR and DRK are stuck. Now WAR can use many different weapon types which enables it to sidestep the issue and use something other then Great Axe. DRK on the other hand is screwed as they only have Great Sword and Scythe as viable options, meaning they are on Great Sword only. MNK and PUP are just screwed as they only have H2H or Staff and neither has exploitable WS's so they must work really hard to get mediocre results.

    What people want isn't a "job balance" as the weaker Weapon Types to be fixed so that more options are available to accomplish approximately the same result. Fix both Great Axe and Scythe WS's, leave Great Sword and Polearm alone. Possibly make Retribution or Full Swing have much better TP multipliers, make Victory Smite copy fTP like many of the other WS's do. That is what people want and it seems that SE is doing something similar with the gear being released.
    (1)
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelix
    Ragnarok's aftermath is only 5% crit rate, even with lv99, so there's almost no point in using Scourge, you just spam Resolution. Even then you become just a boring meathead DD.

    Apoc with both Catastrophe and Entropy gives you crazy sustain of both HP and MP. With the Haste aftermath you can wear a ton of -PDT and solo almost any 75 content.
    Doing damage is for WAR's, DRK is about soloing 75 content yo.....

  4. #4
    Player Shiyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    705
    Character
    Kitori
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    NIN Lv 99
    Scythe is perfectly fine. I don't get why it's considered bad.

    Great axe is bad, that's true. Actually, it isn't bad, it's downright AWFUL.

    Hand to hand I have no personal experience with.

    2h weapons overall are great and perform within 5-10% of 1h.
    (0)

  5. #5
    Player saevel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,350
    Character
    Saevel
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiyo View Post
    Scythe is perfectly fine. I don't get why it's considered bad.

    Great axe is bad, that's true. Actually, it isn't bad, it's downright AWFUL.

    Hand to hand I have no personal experience with.

    2h weapons overall are great and perform within 5-10% of 1h.
    Took me awhile to respond sorry.

    Great Axe is better off then Scythe as Upheaval, Ukko's both do good damage along with having several stat lowering "break" WS's. Scythe has ... Entropy and .... maybe CR ... and that's it. There is no powerful Scythe WS, they all have some really bad aspect that prevents them from being exploited into really high damage regimes.

    So if you think Great Axe is "downright awful' then Scythe by definition must be worse then awful. Making Entropy STR based, Raising Insurgency to 50/50 and raising the fTP anchor points on CR are what's needed for Scythe.
    (1)
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelix
    Ragnarok's aftermath is only 5% crit rate, even with lv99, so there's almost no point in using Scourge, you just spam Resolution. Even then you become just a boring meathead DD.

    Apoc with both Catastrophe and Entropy gives you crazy sustain of both HP and MP. With the Haste aftermath you can wear a ton of -PDT and solo almost any 75 content.
    Doing damage is for WAR's, DRK is about soloing 75 content yo.....

  6. #6
    Player Smokenttp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    105
    Character
    Smokenttp
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    RUN Lv 99
    well, i agree a bit on the exploitable ws thing but in my view what needs to be done is check wich weapons skills that can perform radiance and umbra are doing bad and change then acordingly, the way i currently see square aproching this issue is by introducing strong equipment that a few jobs can use, altough this kinda solves the issue it generates another wich is the said equipment becames mandatory for X job to perform well, and then this will lower the "player population playing ceratain jobs" accordingly to how hard it is to get said gear and that is why i dont like this aproach. Why i sugested the radiance/umbra weapon skills is because they are the same used for 5 step double light/darkness ones and its about the damn time that people start to learn in parties how the skill chain system actually works in this game before judging if a job sucks or is strong. or if they actually want to keep the equipment trend rolling they need to at least put in acessible intermediate gear with helpfull status to help people grabing the stronger options without being forced to join the blu bandwagon just to get inside parties
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player Obysuca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    116
    Character
    Obysuca
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiyo View Post
    Scythe is perfectly fine. I don't get why it's considered bad.
    It's considered bad when you can have a better scythe than your current gs, but your scythe ws only do ~5k while your gs consistently gets 15k+ >_>


    Quote Originally Posted by saevel View Post
    Scythe has ... Entropy and .... maybe CR ... and that's it. There is no powerful Scythe WS, they all have some really bad aspect that prevents them from being exploited into really high damage regimes.
    I really hope they do buff scythe ws, especially since it seems SE keeps trying to force scythe on drk lately (oboro, aeonic, escha ru'an etc). There's far easier to get scythes at this point than a gs, if you don't have a bunch of really good geared people to do t2/t3 Reisenjima.


    But let's talk about the real problem, h2h... lol
    (1)

  8. #8
    Player saevel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,350
    Character
    Saevel
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Obysuca View Post
    It's considered bad when you can have a better scythe than your current gs, but your scythe ws only do ~5k while your gs consistently gets 15k+ >_>




    I really hope they do buff scythe ws, especially since it seems SE keeps trying to force scythe on drk lately (oboro, aeonic, escha ru'an etc). There's far easier to get scythes at this point than a gs, if you don't have a bunch of really good geared people to do t2/t3 Reisenjima.


    But let's talk about the real problem, h2h... lol
    Yeah H2H is suffering even worse the Scythe for the same reasons. VS needs to have the copy fTP mechanic that they gave CDC, HF/TK/RF needs their WSC adjusted and possibly TP anchor points raised. For Scythe, Entropy needs to not-be-INT, though the DRK +3 AF set helps a ton, it still limits the hell out of your gear options. Cross Reaper can get powerful but only past 2000TP, it's TP anchor points need to be raised such that it's 2K power is at 1 ~ 1.5K, Insurgency needs the mods raised to 50/50 and Quietus just needs it's TP mod adjusted to be more potent at lower TP values. Basically Scythe WS's only shine when your sitting at over 2000TP, but by then many other WS types would of done two WS's already.
    (1)
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelix
    Ragnarok's aftermath is only 5% crit rate, even with lv99, so there's almost no point in using Scourge, you just spam Resolution. Even then you become just a boring meathead DD.

    Apoc with both Catastrophe and Entropy gives you crazy sustain of both HP and MP. With the Haste aftermath you can wear a ton of -PDT and solo almost any 75 content.
    Doing damage is for WAR's, DRK is about soloing 75 content yo.....

  9. #9
    Player Songen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    327
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiyo View Post
    For the first time in FFXI history both 2h and DW jobs, and even SINGLE WIELD(fencer warrior) are finally all within 5-10% of eachother! The balance is great!

    However, if you keep buffing 2h jobs, it's just going to go back to the old days of 2h only. All three of the weapon types(fencer, dw, 2h) have their niches and are all around equally useful and good. The new grip from Omen called "Utu grip" with the stats listed below is completely insane:

    HP+70 Accuracy+30 Attack+30 Weapon skill DEX +10%


    This grip might change things and make 2h the default choice for DD again, though, which isn't good. Yes, the grip adds a 10% dex modifier to all your WS when equipped.

    Please stop buffing 2h jobs. They do not need anymore buffs, they are perfectly fine how they are. The player base is just very slow at catching on to how powerful jobs actually are.


    Sincerely, a 2h job main player.

    edit: I forgot h2h jobs exist.
    its strange, you failed to realise this grip is actually near useless to 95% of 2handed WSs with the exception it adds more acc, what it does is modify dex ON WSs.

    ~Dimidation ,
    ~geirskogul,
    ~half of sonic thrust
    Are out of the higher teir WSs the only ones that get dmg modified by this grip.

    one thing you failed to realise is 2handed weapons were always ment to deal more damage than 1 handed weapons, yet nowadays they deal less damage than one handed weapons depending on your setup. not only that, most 1 handed weapons which can be dual weilded build tp far more faster than ever due to triple attack/double attack/store tp gear and have a higher accuracy rateing depending on your job if you off hand a acc weapon.

    don't complain about that jobs that are suppose to deal more damage than 1handed weapons shouldn't be buffed further when they are actually weaker atm and the one piece of evidence you have ("Utu grip") doesn't does nothing what so ever for the absolute majority of 2 handed DD jobs.
    (0)

  10. #10
    Player detlef's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,645
    Character
    Philemon
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 99
    Pretty sure that grip adds a 10% DEX modifier even if the WS didn't have one already.
    (3)

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