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  1. #21
    Player Zeargi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Currently: Windurst
    Posts
    743
    Quote Originally Posted by zataz View Post
    too bad the pld +2 gear isn't worth anything not even a macro slot
    What about the +3?
    (0)
    "What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets. But enough talk... Have at you!" Lord Dracula - [Castlevania:SotN]

  2. #22
    Player BBWallace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    119
    Character
    Topace
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 99
    Lol this isn't the old days tho. You can't give people a quick way to do things for the past 6 years then suddenly start trying to switch it back to 2005.
    (1)

  3. #23
    Player
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,552
    Quote Originally Posted by zataz View Post
    too bad the pld +2 gear isn't worth anything not even a macro slot
    Don't think the intent is for us to upgrade once to +2, and then ignore the +3 upgrade. PLD body+3 has DT-11% on it which seems rather nice to me (as a non-PLD player.) Seems like a lot of the +3s are beating out NQ abj/reisen gear and have to be looked at very closely when compared to HQ abjs.. That indicates they are at the very least, far from worthless.

    Quote Originally Posted by BBWallace View Post
    Lol this isn't the old days tho. You can't give people a quick way to do things for the past 6 years then suddenly start trying to switch it back to 2005.
    And yet, that seems to be pretty close to the intentions of the dev team. They didn't like how everything has become back-to-back spammable 3-5min fights vs single NM targets. They missed dealing with small-fry mobs. They missed the idea of having to organize fellow players and schedule events. Given the clvl of what's inside, and the design/lockout of the entry/reward systems, I'd say they've succeeded in designing something that addresses those issues at least. ^^

    I know my ls has more than a handful who were interested before the update in joining me regularly for this, and have a feeling that a lot more will want in once they wake up and read the patch notes. Having more than 6x people interested is not a bad thing, because we aren't going to bench someone who is geared for the clvl. It is possible to have more than one ls party running at the same time after all. Just takes teamwork. The 2nd "M" in MMO might just be making a comeback here whether you like it or not. I like it. ^^
    (1)
    Last edited by Nyarlko; 12-14-2016 at 12:03 AM.

  4. #24
    Player
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    179
    People are not even asking for hand outs or soloable content, they are asking for good design. Daily lockouts:

    - Makes harder for new people to catch up. Just ask anyone how does it feel to rank coalitions noways.
    - Makes FFXI feel like a job. I need to log out and I need to to the event. If you don't, you are wasting you day. Every time you log you need to do the event or you are wasting your day.
    - Makes super harder to play together for people, especially on small server. This is something a lot of FFXIV players know. One of the best things about FFXI (Even old one) was the ability for people to help. Now, if you do the content, you are out for the day. You can't help your friend catching up. The are server with 250 members online, do you realize how insane will be for some people to actually do this?

    Lockouts don't help anyone. They don't help me, they don't help you. They only help the developers stretch content artificially and keep people subbed.

    Having more than 6x people interested is not a bad thing, because we aren't going to bench someone who is geared for the clvl. It is possible to have more than one ls party running at the same time after all. Just takes teamwork. The 2nd "M" in MMO might just be making a comeback here whether you like it or not. I like it. ^^
    That's nice, what do lockouts have to do with this?
    (6)

  5. #25
    Player Urmom's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    449
    Character
    Urmom
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    GEO Lv 99
    Actually lock outs are a way of making it so content doesn't get completed as fast without making you have to do it more and give some measure of equal rate between the diehards and semi casual. I can guarantee you some kind of tag system or free for all would come at some cost. Whether it be longer runs, lower droprates, harder content, worse gear etc.

    Also wtf is this can't team up thing. Does anyone not remember all the 72 hour or conquest update lock out events... ya know the majority of content? That didn't stop people from teaming up instead it forced them to organize and plan to do it together. And a lot of those were locked behind missions that also took a bit of organization, lots of losses and months to complete. Also slow your roll chicken littles. People already have found rooms that give more KIs
    (1)

  6. #26
    Player Kensagaku's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    652
    Character
    Zeich
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Honestly, I don't see the daily lockout as something to moan and complain about. You miss one day, and you're "behind"? If that was the case you'd be "behind" if you have a dozen jobs leveled since you either have a 10:1 conversion ratio or you have to go there on the job you want cards for, and you'd have a dozen times more work than the person who focuses on just one job. You'd be behind on the +3 train if you don't have the gil for upgrade materials or a party to get to the real bosses at the end. You'd be behind if you simply had bad luck or inferior gear that gets you killed rather than allowing you to succeed, wasting your day. Missing one day isn't going to suddenly put you behind everyone and anyone who wants to play, especially with the sheer number of cards that it will take to get the +3s (something like 50~70 per item, varying with item, iirc). This content's going to last for a long time between lockouts and item requirements, and missing one day isn't going to suddenly leave you crippled. The crowd of people is going to spread out quite easily; the "hardcore" players are going to finish it rapidly because they have top-tier gear and linkshells of skilled players to clear it repeatedly on the first attempt, while the "casual" players are going to solo at a relaxed pace with the goal of getting to the +2 at very least. Everyone else will fall somewhere between these two spots.

    As for the "some jobs are going to get shafted," I mostly disagree. You can go in solo and with Trusts; I did so with DRG/SAM and handled almost all of the mobs just fine. The only reason I died was because I panicked at the time limit and tried to pull a handful of mobs for Sonic Thrust kills, but overdid it; poor planning on my part. Up until then, I had handled the Transcendent mobs quite easily, as well as the lesser adds. The only ones I'd see struggling are perhaps BRD and WHM, though they too can build melee sets, but it's sorta niche. Everything else has a form of modest damage generation, especially when paired with Trusts, so you can farm your cards solo no problem. The only thing you really need a party for is +3 building, and given that it takes the 50~70 cards mentioned above per item, people are going to be doing this for a while just to finish one item to +3 so interested parties should be available for a while yet.
    (0)
    [Kensagaku - formerly of Kujata] - http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Valefor/Kensagaku

  7. #27
    Player
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    179
    Quote Originally Posted by Urmom View Post
    Actually lock outs are a way of making it so content doesn't get completed as fast without making you have to do it more and give some measure of equal rate between the diehards and semi casual. I can guarantee you some kind of tag system or free for all would come at some cost. Whether it be longer runs, lower droprates, harder content, worse gear etc.
    You are speaking like 99% of the game now doesn't have any lockout and works fine.



    Also wtf is this can't team up thing.
    Yes, can't team up. You know why? Because I did Omen, wiped, lost my KI, and now I'm locked out for 20 hours (not even JP midnight!). This means that yes, everyone will also have completely different lockouts.


    Does anyone not remember all the 72 hour or conquest update lock out events... ya know the majority of content? That didn't stop people from teaming up instead it forced them to organize and plan to do it together. And a lot of those were locked behind missions that also took a bit of organization, lots of losses and months to complete. Also slow your roll chicken littles. People already have found rooms that give more KIs

    You mean in 2005, where Dynamist took you a whole night, there were hnmls, there were people everywhere and FFXI had a player base of 500k? Yeah, I remember. I remember also the game being completely different in its execution. I don't remember servers with 250 people online.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kensagaku View Post

    As for the "some jobs are going to get shafted," I mostly disagree. You can go in solo and with Trusts; I did so with DRG/SAM and handled almost all of the mobs just fine. The only reason I died was because I panicked at the time limit and tried to pull a handful of mobs for Sonic Thrust kills, but overdid it; poor planning on my part. Up until then, I had handled the Transcendent mobs quite easily, as well as the lesser adds. The only ones I'd see struggling are perhaps BRD and WHM, though they too can build melee sets, but it's sorta niche. Everything else has a form of modest damage generation, especially when paired with Trusts, so you can farm your cards solo no problem. The only thing you really need a party for is +3 building, and given that it takes the 50~70 cards mentioned above per item, people are going to be doing this for a while just to finish one item to +3 so interested parties should be available for a while yet.
    Did you even get to the boss?
    (2)
    Last edited by Jin_Uzuki; 12-14-2016 at 03:06 AM.

  8. #28
    Player Kensagaku's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    652
    Character
    Zeich
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Jin_Uzuki View Post
    You are speaking like 99% of the game now doesn't have any lockout and works fine.
    Yup, it totally works fine when you have free access to content and burn yourself out spamming them over and over with no cooldown. I totally didn't quit for six months because I ran out of things I hadn't done a full hundred plus times, nope.

    Did you even get to the boss?
    Did you even read my post? Like, most of it? I stated that you could farm cards on just about any job, as cards are not exclusively from bosses. I never once said anything about clearing the major bosses. That is something to be done with a party, and if you're so worried about different lockouts giving you a hard time, take a single day off, organize a static with some friends or people you meet online. Heck, even on the small servers you could shout (and this is speaking from a guy on Valefor). With even a couple hundred people on the server, it's unlikely that you won't find at least a handful of people with a 4-hour window overlapping your availability. With the number of cards it requires to get things done for just one job, this content is going to last a while and be in demand simply for the ability to upgrade artifact gear to pretty good levels for most jobs.
    (0)
    [Kensagaku - formerly of Kujata] - http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Valefor/Kensagaku

  9. #29
    Player
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    179
    Quote Originally Posted by Kensagaku View Post
    Yup, it totally works fine when you have free access to content and burn yourself out spamming them over and over with no cooldown. I totally didn't quit for six months because I ran out of things I hadn't done a full hundred plus times, nope.
    Seems the issue is yours. Don't spam content? No one is forcing you. Create imaginary lockouts in your mind? "I'm doing an escha NM every 20 hours"?
    I'm not sure how an event you can do 20 hours and can't even complete by yourself is going to revitalize your interest.

    Did you even read my post? Like, most of it? I stated that you could farm cards on just about any job, as cards are not exclusively from bosses. I never once said anything about clearing the major bosses. That is something to be done with a party, and if you're so worried about different lockouts giving you a hard time, take a single day off, organize a static with some friends or people you meet online. Heck, even on the small servers you could shout (and this is speaking from a guy on Valefor). With even a couple hundred people on the server, it's unlikely that you won't find at least a handful of people with a 4-hour window overlapping your availability. With the number of cards it requires to get things done for just one job, this content is going to last a while and be in demand simply for the ability to upgrade artifact gear to pretty good levels for most jobs.
    So you didn't. Cool. You wiped at normal enemies and can't even do boss, but you are OK with it. I'm not sure wiping at normal enemies and not completing the event is going to be a lot of people objective, however.

    With even a couple hundred people on the server, it's unlikely that you won't find at least a handful of people with a 4-hour window overlapping your availability.
    You are not looking at handful of people. You are looking for an handful of people who didn't do this before and doesn't plan to do it later with their friends and can do it and has the right jobs.

    Anyone who did coil in FFXIV knows how lockout harmed that game, and it has like x10 the players FFXI.
    (4)
    Last edited by Jin_Uzuki; 12-14-2016 at 03:25 AM.

  10. #30
    Player OmnysValefor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    1,186
    Wow, the PLD +3 set is mediocre.

    Legs for mp recovery. The set as a whole, including body, looks inferior to souv +1 and mostly inferior to nq in enmity, mitigating damage and max hp.

    I'd probably use the body for midcast on some spells, maybe and PLD so rarely has mp issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    Don't think the intent is for us to upgrade once to +2, and then ignore the +3 upgrade. PLD body+3 has DT-11% on it which seems rather nice to me (as a non-PLD player.) Seems like a lot of the +3s are beating out NQ abj/reisen gear and have to be looked at very closely when compared to HQ abjs.. That indicates they are at the very least, far from worthless.



    And yet, that seems to be pretty close to the intentions of the dev team. They didn't like how everything has become back-to-back spammable 3-5min fights vs single NM targets. They missed dealing with small-fry mobs. They missed the idea of having to organize fellow players and schedule events. Given the clvl of what's inside, and the design/lockout of the entry/reward systems, I'd say they've succeeded in designing something that addresses those issues at least. ^^

    I know my ls has more than a handful who were interested before the update in joining me regularly for this, and have a feeling that a lot more will want in once they wake up and read the patch notes. Having more than 6x people interested is not a bad thing, because we aren't going to bench someone who is geared for the clvl. It is possible to have more than one ls party running at the same time after all. Just takes teamwork. The 2nd "M" in MMO might just be making a comeback here whether you like it or not. I like it. ^^
    (0)

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