BLU Balance

[Afania]

You can't just cherry pick jobs that you find are relevant. There is not "melee only" when doing balance in a discussion, its overall balance among jobs in this game.

The title of this thread is BLU balance though, and the only job that's being affected with BLU balance issue are melee jobs, such as WAR MNK DRK SAM DRG. Outside of melee job balance discussion you may as well just create a new thread.

Otherwise we'll just start talking about GEO being the strongest buffer, WHM being the only real healer job, RNG and COR being the only job that can shoot, instead of talking about melee job and BLU.....in a "BLU balance" thread.

[Diavolo]

If anything it's the disrespectful and rude people that repeatedly used "You suck, PUG suck, you don't play BLU" in a dps discussion that made me sound defensive, or angry, or any emotion that you described. In that case it's not direct toward BLU player, but rather because the disrespectful people in the discussion.

If you run on the street and tell them "you suck", you can't expect them to give you reply that's not defensive, no? This is basically what you did atm.

It's what you inferred from a simple question. As to why you did that, I can only guess, but that's why I'm here asking questions rather than jumping to conclusions.

I'm not a career/main/whatever-buzzword-you-want-to-use BLU. I don't care for the divisive language often used in these threads. We're all playing the same game, we all have access to the same jobs/weapons/gear. Do with that what you want.

[Shiyo]

So I'd rather believe in spreadsheet result, WAR and BLU are on the same level in terms of pure DPS. Depending on buffs, situations, gears etc one job may out DPS another.

That's completely not ok. A job like BLU should never come ANYWHERE near a specialists job. Warrior cannot do anything besides deal damage, it should be much stronger than blue mage at dealing damage.

The fact that it's not, is a huge balance issue that needs to be addressed ASAP.

[Shiyo]

Considering Warcry has like 1 min(if I remember correctly with 119 head) duration in longer fights BLU would probably pull ahead, while in shorter fights I see WAR still wins.

And even in situations that favors WAR, which is warcry up, BLU still deal 95% of DPS of WAR. By comparison in 2014 BLU had lower than 95% of top DPS when I spreadsheeted the DPS hierarchy.

IMHO, a job with such survive-ability and versatility, shouldn't do 95% of DPS of WAR in niche situations that strongly favors WAR, and beats WAR most of the time. And WAR is actually one of the strongest "traditional heavy DD" job atm.

If BLU is a DPS only job, not a hybrid job, then the job balance issue doesn't exist.
If BLU is a hybrid job, but only does 70% of DPS of WAR, then the job balance issue doesn't exist as well.

Yeah this is exactly the issue!

There's absolutely no reason that a blue mage should come anywhere near a pure damage jobs damage, ever. No situation.

[Afania]

It's what you inferred from a simple question. As to why you did that, I can only guess, but that's why I'm here asking questions rather than jumping to conclusions.

I'm not a career/main/whatever-buzzword-you-want-to-use BLU. I don't care for the divisive language often used in these threads. We're all playing the same game, we all have access to the same jobs/weapons/gear. Do with that what you want.

You did jump into conclusion though, you either try to find flaws in my argument by asking the question, or assumed I know absolutely nothing about the job when I expressed opinion....thus having a reason to write it off.

Otherwise you tell me, why's "play BLU" the absolute qualification to engage a discussion with job balance? All the description about MG are on BG wiki, and it takes 5 min of reading and learning the MG mechanics to know that there's something quite wrong with the design.

Why can't people express opinions about design issue, because they truly find a hole in design mechanics? I frequently see people use "You don't play BLU thus your opinion isn't legit" or "You're just pissed about what BLU can do, why don't you playing it youself" in this entire discussion, instead of focusing on the points.

It's like when someone with Masters in economy giving advice about finance, most people without the background would totally follow the advice, when a 10 yr old kid giving out the same advice, we won't take it seriously because it's all about the person behind the opinion, not the opinion itself.

But logically, it doesn't make sense.

[Diavolo]

It's difficult to have a civil discussion with someone that takes offense to "Do you play BLU?" and then claims the only reason you asked it was to discredit everything they said, painting you in a negative light in the process. I was genuinely curious about your experience with the job.

I swear, everyone is so damned sensitive these days.

[Afania]

It's difficult to have a civil discussion with someone that takes offense to "Do you play BLU?" and then claims the only reason you asked it was to discredit everything they said, painting you in a negative light in the process. I was genuinely curious about your experience with the job.

I swear, everyone is so damned sensitive these days.

It depend on the situation, and how you ask.

In normal circumstances, if I pt with someone, and he asked "do you play BLU?", I wouldn't take offense. I would just view it as a conversation starter.

If someone's organizing pt and he asked "Do you play BLU", I also wouldn't take offense. Because I know pt lead just wanted to gather info on team member's job, to do his job.

In your case, you asked the question "Do you play BLU" basically right after I posted my proposal to the adjustment, in the middle of a heated debate. Followed with "I asked the question to the OP and they sidestepped it."

I'd bet 90% of time people will find it somewhat uncomfortable with a question like this, that's just how human react. People tend to be more defensive in a debate or heated discussion, therefore people tend to react differently compare with "normal" conversation. A "Do you play BLU" question could send out entirely different msg depending on the situation. Try to observe it irl, ask questions like "Do you have Masters in Finance" when 2 people are having a debate about economy, I can promise 90% of people will take offense, or feel uncomfortable about it, especially if you follow with the following sentence: "Last time I asked someone with the same opinion they sidestepped it"

If you really want to ask "do you play BLU" in a heated debate, I'd suggest the more tactful way is to start the conversation with different approach, such as "As someone who also plays BLU, I can understand where you are coming from, BUT [insert your opinions here]" or at least explain your reasoning behind wanting to know, such as "As someone who plays BLU, I find a lot of opinions about BLU is being exaggerated, such as VD solos. Could you tell me a little bit more about your VD solo experiences on BLU?"

There are probably a tactful way to approach the "do you play BLU" question, but definitely not "Do you play BLU? Last time when I asked OP they sidestepped it"

If you choose a less tactful way to engage the conversation, then you can't really blame people for being "too sensitive", most people will have the same reaction.

[Immortta]

That's completely not ok. A job like BLU should never come ANYWHERE near a specialists job. Warrior cannot do anything besides deal damage, it should be much stronger than blue mage at dealing damage.

The fact that it's not, is a huge balance issue that needs to be addressed ASAP.

Yes which is why it needs a buff. ALL 1h jobs got stronger, not just BLU, after that ws revamp. I think the 1h ws should be toned a little back and 2h a little more but a nerf to what BLU has done since day1 is silly. It's always had those buffs since day 1.

[Numquam]

Is this thread the result of people not getting jobs in PUGs for everyday content?

[Jakuk]

Yes which is why it needs a buff. ALL 1h jobs got stronger, not just BLU, after that ws revamp. I think the 1h ws should be toned a little back and 2h a little more but a nerf to what BLU has done since day1 is silly. It's always had those buffs since day 1.

Because no other job has had a dramatic change from what the job could do Day 1.

BLU Was never this powerful from day one, why people keep claiming this is beyond me.

Yes it had most the same buffs bar MG, but they came at great cost to equip so you were limited on what spells and traits you can have, since JP, 1H buff and MG a LOT has changed.

Is this thread the result of people not getting jobs in PUGs for everyday content?

It's the result of people seeing just how OP this job is and realising that maybe that shouldn't be the case.