BLU Balance

[Jakuk]

BLU is one of the most gear extensive jobs in the game. You can't scream "They have too much utility" and then say they don't have to gear for that utility. Would say the only jobs comparable to BLU gear wise would be maybe RDM, SCH, PUP, and BST. Maybe throw in SMN there.



You are severely under playing how many sets BLU uses. You can't place one job based off a terrible player, and another on a competent player for your sets example.

Blu healing + blu white wind(hp+)
Macc/Add effect for Sudden Lunge/spells with additional effect
Blu physical spells(different mods for spells)
really many more, but it is silly.


BST is way better at soloing than BLU, unless you're including with trusts and lower tier stuff. Then sure?
RDM is better at soloing than BLU
PUP is better at soloing than BLU

DNC is a better DD than BLU, but I would say is worse than BLU at soloing. Unless whatever you're fighting doesn't have much HP.

SCH is king at soloing, and it isn't even close. Would place BLU around 4th or 5th at soloing.

To play properly, yes it does, but the argument is not against those playing properly, it's the fact they can gear sub-par and do it as well if not better than most the others jobs with equal gear. I have no qualms with those playing it to the best of BLU's ability, they should be strong, but those not doing so should NOT be as strong as they are.

I compared the two sets for the two jobs for one clear reason, that is the minimum requirement to SOLO for each job. RDM needs far more gear than BLU to solo. So yes, I can compare the two as it's relevant

That said, you are also ignoring the fact that 99.9% of the BLU player base do NOT use many spells bar maybe 3 or 4 (Which don't need special gear), unless they are Cleaving, since in most cases casting these spells is a substantial DPS drop, same way most DRK's will not cast, or other melee casters for the self-same reason. So including sets for them is pointless as even the best BLU's will not use them and is simply done so to increase gear set totals to prove your point.

I'll disagree with your ranking as I've seen many cases that disprove it.

[Shiyo]

BLU is one of the most gear extensive jobs in the game. You can't scream "They have too much utility" and then say they don't have to gear for that utility. Would say the only jobs comparable to BLU gear wise would be maybe RDM, SCH, PUP, and BST. Maybe throw in SMN there.



You are severely under playing how many sets BLU uses. You can't place one job based off a terrible player, and another on a competent player for your sets example.

Blu healing + blu white wind(hp+)
Macc/Add effect for Sudden Lunge/spells with additional effect
Blu physical spells(different mods for spells)
really many more, but it is silly.


BST is way better at soloing than BLU, unless you're including with trusts and lower tier stuff. Then sure?
RDM is better at soloing than BLU
PUP is better at soloing than BLU

DNC is a better DD than BLU, but I would say is worse than BLU at soloing. Unless whatever you're fighting doesn't have much HP.

SCH is king at soloing, and it isn't even close. Would place BLU around 4th or 5th at soloing.

None of that matters.
"my job takes more gear sets so it should be better".

I'm pretty sure anyone in the entire game would GLADLY be ok with needing more gear if it meant their job was the strongest in the entire game .

Also I've been in groups with blu's that TP in full Jhakri or use outdated spells because they've been lazy. Everyone else, sometimes even the tank, are doing much more damage than them.

If sufficient means they can hit the boss and their ws's do damage. Bad spellsets or Jhakri (or any ambuscade set) is enough.

With the exception of monk (I honestly don't know how bad monk is, because I never see them), if you're in just an ambuscade set, you will be outdps'ing such a BLU. I'm sure Monk would be too but I never ever see monk.

None of that matters, either. You shouldn't compare someone who is basically afk and not trying at all to someone who is properly geared. That argument makes...no actual sense.

A job isn't OP unless it can out damage everyone while naked? I...don't understand?

[Afania]

BLU is one of the most gear extensive jobs in the game. You can't scream "They have too much utility" and then say they don't have to gear for that utility. Would say the only jobs comparable to BLU gear wise would be maybe RDM, SCH, PUP, and BST. Maybe throw in SMN there.



You are severely under playing how many sets BLU uses. You can't place one job based off a terrible player, and another on a competent player for your sets example.

Blu healing + blu white wind(hp+)
Macc/Add effect for Sudden Lunge/spells with additional effect
Blu physical spells(different mods for spells)
really many more, but it is silly.


BST is way better at soloing than BLU, unless you're including with trusts and lower tier stuff. Then sure?
RDM is better at soloing than BLU
PUP is better at soloing than BLU

DNC is a better DD than BLU, but I would say is worse than BLU at soloing. Unless whatever you're fighting doesn't have much HP.

SCH is king at soloing, and it isn't even close. Would place BLU around 4th or 5th at soloing.

Exactly what makes RDM being better at soloing than BLU? I'm just not seeing it. BLU can self cap haste, /RUN for magic evasion AND still maintain DW PLUS AoE stoneskin for NPC to prevent them from dying, then AoE sleep or cleave adds if NM pops them. BLU's output is also massive compare with RDMs. RDM pretty much has to rely on single wield SJ to AoE things, can't self cap haste, and even with DW SJ the output is still below BLU.

I'm not seeing RDM being a better soloer than BLU, if anything it just kills slower on most things.

[Zetaking]

Blu gear sets
WS:1 savage/expiation/black halo (generally stack in order of str, wsd, acc and attack so there sets are very similar so will list as one)
2 Cdc
3 Sanguine blade
4 realm/req (similar set to savage but ftp transfers so having neck and belt does make the set different, also mnd actually means more than str for these 2)

Fast cast set

mid cast: 1 Skill dependent buff (mostly Occultation and magic barrier as a sub set could include battery charge and regeneration because of the fact regen+ and refresh+ potency/duration do effect them )
2 non skill dependent buff (barrier tusk ext generally stacking conserve mp and haste/fast cast/recast delay gear)
3 Phalanx set (pretty much the only enhancing magic buff blu cares about from rdm and taeon can get you +3 per slot and dark mater augments as high as 5+ for 15-25 extra off the base from skill[of at least 14 up to 18 iirc]
4 physical melee spells dmg
5 Physical melee spells Add effect
6 magical spells Dmg
7 magical debuffs
8 cure set magic fruit/wildcarrot/ext
9 White wind set(enough of the gear is different to consider them different sets)
10 enmity set


Tp sets
1 Multi attack(low acc)
2 High acc set
3 high acc dt set
4 stp set (mostly for Tazona's af3 but has merit with heavy clubs as well)
5 full dt/mevasion set (aka the panic button when the big nasty move is going down)

this should cover the major sets i mean there are alot of items i cant really call a set tho thay have important uses, like the diffusion boots 1 item a set does not make >.>;, also melee spells generally its easiest to stack str and acc before getting fancy, and the magical spells... well... a lot, and i mean A LOT of niche items there (pixi hairpin, weather spoon ring, that neck from the tree that i cant recall its name atm starts with a Q, ext but generally stacking int and matt is a good place to start.

[OmnysValefor]

The time it takes to learn spells can't really be an argument for BLU's strengths/weaknesses. I must admit that's a weak defense. Mages don't get to complain about the high cost of spells they paid for years ago and even some today.

You can say "I could do it in a week" (get all the spells/gear/macros), but it's probably harder than you think it is and it depends on what you define as "gear" and how much you're contributing to the fight. Are you getting friends or your main to carry you, or are you going out there in sparks gear and fighting through Escha NMs and easier versions of Ambuscade? If you're getting crazy assistance, anything can be geared in a week.

Edit: It also depends what you mean by all spells. Sometimes, even with diaga or blugeon spam, getting the mob to tp and use the spell you want it to and winning the RNG game of learning the spell can be rough. Battery Charge and Self-Destruct were awffffullll for me. Some were hard, some weren't, but those two were the worst.

A lot of the spells are irrelevant for actual use, but equipped because they cost less Blue Magic Points to achieve the same tier..

---

I would say BLU is a bit more difficult than most melee to gear.

You need varying levels of TP sets (low/mid/high acc), dt sets, multiple ws sets. All this applies to every melee. You need Fast Casts sets (technically applies to every melee except probably sam, mostly NIN, RDM, DRK, BST, Other jobs for /nin, but nin isn't that useful anymore). Need a skill set (applies to DRK, RUN, RDM, NIN). You need an MACC set (DRK, RDM, NIN--butlol). BLU needs a healing potency set.

BLU doesn't "need" a skill set any more than RDM "needs" an enhancing set or a duration set. Dedicated BLU/RDM will have it, others will not. BLU not having a skillset will probably be more punitive on the BLU.

No offense but I'm being really generous including RDM in these lists. I should list PLD before I list RDM.

BLU should have idealized sets for preferred physical spells, but this isn't 2008, your primary source of physical damage is how fast you can get to 1k TP and what you can do with that, especially stacked with other melee that TPing right along with you. Try to CDC>Sinker Drill? You won't get the MB off before someone else has ws'd something. Hopefully it's rudra's.

Highly skilled and highly dedicated, BST probably can still solo things that equally-played BLU can't. BST still does probably have maybe the most amazing 1hr in the game. It's also probably true that BLU might solo things BST can't. I've said before, I don't play this game to solo.

We can talk and talk about why BST was nerfed but when you look at what the change actually affected, the answer is clear: BST could stand at max range and do maximum damage, safe from most enfeebles/aoes and at the bare minimum of enmity. I've always agreed that the distance is restricted too far, but the distance needed restricted. BST didn't get nerfed because of its AOE capability because that remains exactly as good as it was in cleaving XP and in boss fights.

I can't really think of any mechanic in any fight that BLU can just ignore either. Yes, we can erase debuffs and reapply Haste, if we set an erase to do that (losing some other spell, thus losing DPS), or sub dancer, white mage or scholar (blu/dnc is gross, blu/whm is, and blu/sch is for melee). Those same options are also available to other melee. Trusts can do it, virtually any whm trust will, but you can't frame a balance discussion around what trusts can do.

When BLU does sub dnc, it loses any respectable offensive ability. All it has is Chain Affinity, Burst Affinity, and Efflux. It gains the same weaker Reverse Flourish every job /dnc has. BLU's 2hr's are also pretty lackluster compared to most DD/Pet DD. It gains Dual Wield but thankfully, gifts don't amp up traits that subs give. You either go with the slower attack speed or you work with usual spells. Alternatively, you can gear more DW+ and otherwise lose DPS from the multi-attack/store-tp gear that you're wearing. Of course, 5% from Haste Samba is worth mentioning.

We can talk about BLU's ability to delay cap, which is beneficial to every job, but most DD have their own traits that people don't consider. In a party with an RDM, SMN, BRD, Frequently GEO (there are often times your group just doesn't need anything else), or another BLU, the value of BLU's DPS enhancements (delay reduction) falters (For the fights that last long enough/spammed, MG is nice from a second BLU).

None of BLU's offensive abilities affect how hard it WS's. Nature's Meditation (atk boost) does and Tenebral does (difficult to land on things worthwhile. If you have a geo, it's probably not even worth using). BLU's strength comes in from the traits it can set (Triple attack, Critical Attack Bonus, Store TP, Skillchain Bonus), but all of these things are applying towards a blank slate.

I can share some sort of delay reduction with you, you can't share your abilities with me.

I realize people are pretty set in their own opinion, and this won't sway anyone, but it was worth stating.

[OmnysValefor]

Also I've been in groups with blu's that TP in full Jhakri or use outdated spells because they've been lazy. Everyone else, sometimes even the tank, are doing much more damage than them.

If sufficient means they can hit the boss and their ws's do damage. Bad spellsets or Jhakri (or any ambuscade set) is enough.

With the exception of monk (I honestly don't know how bad monk is, because I never see them), if you're in just an ambuscade set, you will be outdps'ing such a BLU. I'm sure Monk would be too but I never ever see monk.

[Afania]

I would say BLU is a bit more difficult than most melee to gear.

You need varying levels of TP sets (low/mid/high acc), dt sets, multiple ws sets. All this applies to every melee. You need Fast Casts sets (technically applies to every melee except probably sam, mostly NIN, RDM, DRK, BST, Other jobs for /nin, but nin isn't that useful anymore). Need a skill set (applies to DRK, RUN, RDM, NIN). You need an MACC set (DRK, RDM, NIN--butlol). BLU needs a healing potency set.

You guys are exaggerating the gear set difference between BLU and other jobs. Anyone who gear their job seriously would have all of the sets you listed for their job, whether it's BLU or not.

For example on COR I have all of the sets that you listed and more: varying acc levels of TP sets for both melee and ranged(low/mid/high acc). I have 4 different dt- sets(physical/magical/hybrid melee/status resist), I have 6 different ws set for COR 6 primary ws(savage/leaden/wf/last stand/req/evis), I have FC set for /NIN and /mage, enhancing magic skill set for phalanx, stoneskin set, healing potency for cure III/Cure IV for /mage, I also have macc set for light and dark shot.

Oh and let's not get into JA sets, QD dmg and QD stp sets, different variation of roll sets(pdt- hybrid, or mp+ hybrid so you don't lose as much mp /mage when doing rolls), ranged crit-hit builds, waltz set for /DNC, refresh sets etc etc etc.

Anyways, my point is that anyone that plays their job seriously, regardless of which job would have massive amount of sets, it's not BLU only. We just see massive waves of BLU players on the forum carrying that many sets because some of the most vocal players in NA community are career BLUs, so they advocate 400 million sets on their favorite job. But in reality you don't need THAT many gear sets(regardless of the job) to do events. Like COR only need leaden/qd/roll set to do endgame, BLU certainly don't need conserve MP for everything people bring BLU for....you can build one if you love BLU, but you're not going to see massive performance difference between a BLU with conserve MP build and a BLU without.

Despite I have that many sets on COR, I'm not going to pretend my COR massively outperforms bandwagon DP3 COR with just roll/leaden/qd set in endgame, nor tell people "you need every sets that I listed or else you suck" like some people here.

[Stamos]

Difference from what you're saying and what I am saying is, the gear I am stating is for the main job. You're bringing up sets for different sub jobs. I am exclusively talking about BLU main only.


As for RDM being better solo, I was under the impression we were talking without trusts. With trusts BLU will be better than RDM.



The whole AOE nuking thing is something BLU has going for it, but I believe it is designed that way because almost all of BLUs nukes are Aoe and they can only be MB'd once every two minutes. Once again, it is not the best solo job. Certain People keep just throwing random things out there without any facts(Not Afania).

[OmnysValefor]

I meant to touch on that too. RDM has barspells and more practical spell costs (which isn't a huge concern in Escha).

Many people on both sides are reaching pretty far.

RDM would be a better kite-soloer but pretty sure that's laughably niche these days and SCH is arguably better though it lacks higher tiers of Frazzle and Gravity.

Yes, subduction, but blu spell costs and ranges make that idea laughable--before anyone says it.

[Afania]

I meant to touch on that too. RDM has barspells and more practical spell costs (which isn't a huge concern in Escha).

Many people on both sides are reaching pretty far.

RDM would be a better kite-soloer but pretty sure that's laughably niche these days and SCH is arguably better though it lacks higher tiers of Frazzle and Gravity.

Yes, subduction, but blu spell costs and ranges make that idea laughable--before anyone says it.

Admittedly I haven't actually look into ideal meva/mdef build of BLU/RUN with every JT/spell set v.s RDM/NIN casting barspells when it comes to magic dmg taken reduction. But even if RDM/NIN comes out as better job in terms of taking magic dmg with barspells, I highly doubt the difference is that huge to be able to claim RDM is way better solo job than BLU. Considering RDM can't aoe stoneskin for trusts and maintain DW like BLU could, I'm still not seeing RDM having a huge advantage over BLU, personally.