Job points has ruined one of the foundations of this game

[Castanica]

On Asura you're lucky to see 1 or 2 parties at any of the Apex camps during normal times, Reisen camps are almost always freely available. During double CP almost every Apex camp is full and Reisen is almost impossible to get CP in because most camps are full.

[OmnysValefor]

Valefor's the same way (actually much worse), but I'm shocked to hear that about Asura.

I get it though, once you've had double cp, the half-campaign just feels off and slow. It feels like something is wrong/the party is slow/something.

[Zeldar]

You don't have to understand everyone's motivations, I'm here because I enjoy doing specific things in groups, I loved Delve, Vagary, I loved Abyssea, at the end of the day I'm here because I like the mechanics of the game, optimizing my gear, and playing with my friends, those may not be the same things you value, but it's okay, we can like different things.





I've been playing since the US release, like yourself, also have all the boosts, have a billion voidstones, all the areas, almost all the quests and missions done. (I'm missing bastok and some of the post-ring ones that are newish in adoulin) I have four master jobs to your one, it's amusing that you're making all these assumptions, but I'm lobbying from what I see as a place of reasonable effort to feel accomplished and what generates the most fun for me and those I know at the end of the day, you're welcome to say you find another way more fun, but insulting anyone who likes it another way doesn't seem fair or reasonable to me.

They've made changes to the game, they're going to make more, they're going to make more content, they've asked for input, it would be foolish not to present our viewpoint and hope that the devs see it the same way or see enough requests for something to make it that way. At the end of the day, they want to make the game what most people enjoy, you're welcome to state what you like, but so will everyone else.

Hey, I'm calling it what it is. People wanting changes that make already easy content easier, or wanting the ability to completely bypass content yet still get the same advantages as those who do it IS LAZY. "I want something but I don't want to work for it, or want to work a lot less for it" ... thats the epitome of LAZINESS. Just because you are calling for changes doesn't mean what you are calling for is right. They ask for input, but that doesn't make all the feedback given right. Yes, I only have stars on BLM and a few away on BLU.....but you don't see me on here crying that CP are too hard to get, do you? The fact that I haven't mastered all my 99 jobs, or even the 5 I like to play, has absolutely nothing to do with it.

[Selindrile]

Hey, I'm calling it what it is. People wanting changes that make already easy content easier, or wanting the ability to completely bypass content yet still get the same advantages as those who do it IS LAZY. "I want something but I don't want to work for it, or want to work a lot less for it" ... thats the epitome of LAZINESS. Just because you are calling for changes doesn't mean what you are calling for is right. They ask for input, but that doesn't make all the feedback given right. Yes, I only have stars on BLM and a few away on BLU.....but you don't see me on here crying that CP are too hard to get, do you? The fact that I haven't mastered all my 99 jobs, or even the 5 I like to play, has absolutely nothing to do with it.

You can keep repeating how the guy who has done more work on this exact subject is lazier than you, but it just makes you seem silly.

Me, or you, or anyone requesting what we want out of FFXI aren't necessarily more right, or wrong, because there isn't really an objective measure here, I'll request the future to be the way I want it to be, and you're free to do the same.

But insulting those who have another opinion than you on exactly how much effort is "proper" to feel accomplished in a video game is just downright ridiculous.

There is obviously some amount that feels like the right amount of effort for each of us, I'm sure some people would like it if the CP generation rate was 1/100th of what it currently is, and they might call you who want it where it is lazy for not wanting it to be worth more, not wanting to work harder for the reward... but those people are the minority, and most games development seem to try to appeal to the majority of their players, and the majority of the players, as best as I can tell, would like the sliding bar lower than where it is now.

[Castanica]

Hey, I'm calling it what it is. People wanting changes that make already easy content easier, or wanting the ability to completely bypass content yet still get the same advantages as those who do it IS LAZY. "I want something but I don't want to work for it, or want to work a lot less for it" ... thats the epitome of LAZINESS. Just because you are calling for changes doesn't mean what you are calling for is right. They ask for input, but that doesn't make all the feedback given right. Yes, I only have stars on BLM and a few away on BLU.....but you don't see me on here crying that CP are too hard to get, do you? The fact that I haven't mastered all my 99 jobs, or even the 5 I like to play, has absolutely nothing to do with it.

You seem to be totally oblivious that different people have different tolerances for mindless grinding and need to be eased into the better, you also seem to think everyone can go do Apex which isn't the case. This game can ill afford to lose people in the way it does, the quitting rate on Asura alone is very high. Most of the new people I see joining or returning are gone within a few months, disgracefully slow and unrewarding JP acquisition is one of the major annoyances.

FFXI is the undisputed king of grind in this genre, I've played almost all of the current games and nothing comes close to this. It's pretty comparable to old ffxi in terms of how grindy it is (they just moved the grind around to give the illusion it's better).

I don't think most people mind so much that getting mastery is such a long task, the problem is that getting your character acceptable amount of JP is such a grind when being acceptable is the key to getting more CP per hour. The first 1k JP or so should be far quicker, far easier. Not only would this encourage the mass of players to push on with JP but it would encourage teh grinders to try master far more jobs than they currently do.

Some seem to have the mindset that the longer the grind, the longer the player will stick around. That's not how it works, when something seems insurmountable people don't ever really engage with the grind. They then quit because they have no valid things to do, lots of hardcore players even quit with only a handful mastered jobs (which is pathetic given "how easy it is to them")

[Zeldar]

The majority of the players I come in contact with daily have no gripe at all about how easy or difficult it is to obtain JP. Not in my ls, and not in the pick-ups I join when I'm feeling frisky. And yes: I have every right to view people who want the game made easier for them as lazy. You may have more job points than me, but thats because I do not prioritize them. My obs are well beyond simply "functional" without them. I concentrate on aspects of the game that I see as more important to me. I would like for the dev team to spend THEIR limited time and resources on things more important to the development of the game. For example, would their resources be better spent making JP faster to get ( I guess I'll correct myself in that the gripe isn't that they are HARD to get, but not fast enough), or making melee'ing at close range actually possible on high tier content? I won't presume to know which you feel is more important to the community as a whole, but as someone with samurai and blue "mastered", I think we all know the honest answer. So lets stop wasting dev team LIMITED time with trivial matters like this and encourage the mt o fix the REAL issues with the game.

[Castanica]

The majority of the players I come in contact with daily have no gripe at all about how easy or difficult it is to obtain JP. Not in my ls, and not in the pick-ups I join when I'm feeling frisky. And yes: I have every right to view people who want the game made easier for them as lazy. You may have more job points than me, but thats because I do not prioritize them. My obs are well beyond simply "functional" without them. I concentrate on aspects of the game that I see as more important to me. I would like for the dev team to spend THEIR limited time and resources on things more important to the development of the game. For example, would their resources be better spent making JP faster to get ( I guess I'll correct myself in that the gripe isn't that they are HARD to get, but not fast enough), or making melee'ing at close range actually possible on high tier content? I won't presume to know which you feel is more important to the community as a whole, but as someone with samurai and blue "mastered", I think we all know the honest answer. So lets stop wasting dev team LIMITED time with trivial matters like this and encourage the mt o fix the REAL issues with the game.

LOL

This post was more hilarious than the whole 2 hours of the new ghostbusters film, not saying that much I guess...but still!

[Zeldar]

LOL

This post was more hilarious than the whole 2 hours of the new ghostbusters film, not saying that much I guess...but still!

"Umm, he has a point and I have no intelligent counter . I'll just laugh it off then" What is so hilarious about it?

[OmnysValefor]

Jobmaster took me ages, and I loved the slow journey.
Stompa.


..."What's The Big Hurry"

I realize you edited out the "What's The Big Hurry" probably for fear of sounding rude but it's a fair question.

"The big hurry" for a lot of players is the desire to participate in content. I can see both sides of the argument, having mastered a few jobs and seemingly never able to master others due to time. Mastering a job gives you gifts that, in regards to the core purpose of your job, raises your level a little bit and that's not even touching on what the categories do. Some categories and gifts are way more potent than "a few levels", some are way less. This disparity is not spread evenly across jobs.

Take SCH for instance: It's capacity to skillchain, which is often used in the game, is not nearly as strong until the SCH reaches 550 JP. More than 25% of the way through the 'grind'. BLU's 20 Blue Magic Points category and 100/1200 literally redefine what the job is capable of.

[Eaglestrike]

You don't have to understand everyone's motivations, I'm here because I enjoy doing specific things in groups, I loved Delve, Vagary, I loved Abyssea, at the end of the day I'm here because I like the mechanics of the game, optimizing my gear, and playing with my friends, those may not be the same things you value, but it's okay, we can like different things.

I've been playing since the US release, like yourself, also have all the boosts, have a billion voidstones, all the areas, almost all the quests and missions done. (I'm missing bastok and some of the post-ring ones that are newish in adoulin) I have four master jobs to your one, it's amusing that you're making all these assumptions, but I'm lobbying from what I see as a place of reasonable effort to feel accomplished and what generates the most fun for me and those I know at the end of the day, you're welcome to say you find another way more fun, but insulting anyone who likes it another way doesn't seem fair or reasonable to me.

They've made changes to the game, they're going to make more, they're going to make more content, they've asked for input, it would be foolish not to present our viewpoint and hope that the devs see it the same way or see enough requests for something to make it that way. At the end of the day, they want to make the game what most people enjoy, you're welcome to state what you like, but so will everyone else.

If you enjoy the mechanics of the game, optimizing your gear and playing with friends...how is farming JP a problem? Apex parties are literally one of the most fundamental aspects of the game. You can do your standard 6-man tank, 2x DD, 2x support, healer, or tweak it a bit, and play the game. You also can optimize your gear between JP sessions and notice the improvement. And playing with friends is ideal for CP!

You can also get a few JP's doing Delves and Vagary. You're not in a huge rush to max JP instantly, right?

Also my point I made sometime earlier stands, if you're worried about JP for min/max reasons you need to do all missions for vorseals and rewards (Rajas is still decently viable, Moonshade and Adoulin rings are BiS depending on choices, etc.) And they give a CP bonus to them. If you are okay skipping over missions because you simply don't enjoy them, I don't see why you absolutely MUST have master on a job, because the min/max principle would mean you must complete missions, so if you're not about min/max you can handle not being a master <job> too.

There is obviously some amount that feels like the right amount of effort for each of us, I'm sure some people would like it if the CP generation rate was 1/100th of what it currently is

...it used to be, basically. They've already made THAT many boosts to the content. The prime CP spot used to be the bats in Woh Gates Map 2 for around 1k CP a pop, during double CP/Chain CP event on my COR I hit the max CP per kill of 65536 or whatever it caps out at. They have made JP acquisition sooooooooooooooooo much easier already there's very little else they can even do for it.