Mog Wardrobe 3&4 feedback.

[Seiowan]

Some people in this thread have a flair for the dramatic. Having paid additional storage isn't exactly a new concept, even for a subscription based game. It doesn't open any flood gates, it doesn't eat your dog and it doesn't signal the coming of the next apocalypse. It's storage, it's optional, and it's a QoL feature not a magic "give me level 119 afterglow relic" button.

Let's be fair here, they've given us a lot for our subscriptions up to now, and the first two wardrobes are freebies! Having a purchasable bonus storage doesn't magically make your subscription worth less than it did but it does provide a little extra revenue to help keep FFXI running and fund future updates. I think the majority of vocal complaints are from people who want the extra storage, but would rather not pay for it. You can't always have your cake and eat it though.

[Raydeus]

Some people in this thread have a flair for the dramatic. Having paid additional storage isn't exactly a new concept, even for a subscription based game. It doesn't open any flood gates, it doesn't eat your dog and it doesn't signal the coming of the next apocalypse. It's storage, it's optional, and it's a QoL feature not a magic "give me level 119 afterglow relic" button.

Let's be fair here, they've given us a lot for our subscriptions up to now, and the first two wardrobes are freebies! Having a purchasable bonus storage doesn't magically make your subscription worth less than it did but it does provide a little extra revenue to help keep FFXI running and fund future updates. I think the majority of vocal complaints are from people who want the extra storage, but would rather not pay for it. You can't always have your cake and eat it though.

What are you talking about? Of course we'll always want additional storage.

And like I've said before the issue isn't really the money, but the way it's going to be handled. That is why the most important issue among JP and NA players posting and liking posts in both threads is whether or not the money is really going to go towards helping XI keep running and towards updates.

We've all played long enough to know how money going towards XI has kept decreasing ever since XIV was announced. And right now the game is being ran by a skeleton crew that subs alone can more than pay for. So where is this money going? We don't know. And where do you think that money is more likely to go then? Well, that thought you just had is the reason why people feel very iffy about paying an extra 2-4 bucks a month.

If we knew for certain the money would bring back support to XI (programmers, animators, writers, Mizuta-san to compose more music, etc.) NO ONE would be complaining about it and we be all paying those extra 4 bucks with joy. Because like I've said before, a majority of XI players are older people with jobs who grew up playing the game, so the extra money isn't really an issue.

But hey that's just a theory, a... never mind.

[OmnysValefor]

Let's be fair here, they've given us a lot for our subscriptions up to now, and the first two wardrobes are freebies! Having a purchasable bonus storage doesn't magically make your subscription worth less than it did but it does provide a little extra revenue to help keep FFXI running and fund future updates. I think the majority of vocal complaints are from people who want the extra storage, but would rather not pay for it. You can't always have your cake and eat it though.

Let's be honest here, we've paid them good money over the years which leased us access to our characters and the content on our accounts and the wardrobes. Having a further-leasable bonus does diminish the point of subscribing to a video game.

You're absolutely right. I want both wardrobes for no additional cost, but most especially a monthly cost. They still won't be free, because I'm paying to play the game. We don't know one way or the other whether this is a sign of further "rentables" or if it's a one-off thing. Every game that has introduced a cash-shop had to start somewhere, and I've never them just do one thing and then stop.

[Castanica]

Lets be honest here, no matter how much we all paid in the past has no relevance to anything in the real world. I've paid around $400 on my mobile phone provider over the years, you know what that $400 gets me? Squat. You know what they tell me when I phone up and say I'm a long standing customer and I've paid $400!? They ask me to sign up for a 12 month contract going forward, it's worth nothing to anyone. You paid for the service you were given, entertainment from a service provider. You got $600-$800 worth of entertainment and think paying for that service entitles you to anything above and beyond that, it doesn't. You aren't doing them a favor, you paid for what they gave you in the past and if that service had not been good enough, you would of stopped paying. So please, get off your high horse with your listed payments.

Also, if you paid $600 in the past that has no relevance to if it's gonna still be playable tomorrow because you are paying for a service that was provided in exchange for every cent you spent. If income tomorrow dips below an acceptable amount it closes, the end...all your "investment" is gone instantly. If the lead dev wants to argue for a bigger budget for ffxi then he has to goto the financial meeting and prove that it's worth investing more money into. The suits don't want to hear about anything but the game making more money. The money for this won't directly go back into ffxi but a product that is making more money is more likely to get a higher budget at the next financial meetings. A product that has seen profits fall over the year will get its budget cut for the following year, and this game has less players now than it did last year.


End of the day, I want this game to be around for a long time and get a bigger budget. The ONLY singular way either of these things will happen is to increase the amount of money this game makes from the players it has, this is only going to happen by trying to offer services and items above and beyond the basic subscription. The playerbase aint gonna get bigger because it's way to much of a niche title. The only way to increase profits is to attempt to offer services the current players may want.

FFXI is a business, contrary to what the vocal minority think.

If they had said they are increasing subs by $4 for everyone, that would of enraged me and everyone across the board. If they offer additional services for $4, I'm totally fine with that. Offer more, race, name, character changers, optional mounts, trusts, anything. I'll buy stuff and give you money for additional services if I want them and updates continue.

The difference between people for and against is that the people who are ok with it are realists and have probably played other games, the people against it are living in Disney world and probably have never played anything other than ffxi. They think a game can run just fine with less money and where all that matters is their measly $3 a week when devs make 6 figures a year. If you don't like the updates the game is getting now and are against this, you ain't gonna like next year because there are less people playing this year than last and that means it's gonna get a smaller budget and probably even less devs working on it.

Oh and I posted this in another thread but I'll also put it here:

Currently I have 18 mules, with this I get over 650k gil per char (im swapping money for gil), 17 more chances at a defending ring than you per login event. I get 170 extra chances to win the mog lottery and vastly more rare items when they run special key events.

If you have alts, that's basically pay to win right there. If I pay an extra $12 a month and level a geo alt, I'm getting a massive advantage over you.

On another mmorpg I play, you are not allowed to have more than one account because they consider it a huge advantage. It's also f2p so they have no reason to let you do it.

So here is my question, why are the things above ok but an optional extra inventory space when they already give you 800 space for free not ok?

I want someone against this to explain how paying $12 for an alt is not p2w yet this inventory addition is.

[OmnysValefor]

There is absolutely nothing in any agreement that says they will never introduce a cash shop. However, I am disappointed that this is the direction SE has taken and have expressed that.

No, not just once but I have made my opinion clear and will continue to do so. Cash shops have never done well by any playerbase, but at least purely cosmetic items don't hurt anyone. In a game where you're meant to play many jobs on one character, charging for inventory space is charging a premium for something important to the game.

It's strange to me that people both say to the people who claim to be quitting "lol, you're quitting over this" and to the non-quitters "if you don't like it, quit".

[Castanica]

There is absolutely nothing in any agreement that says they will never introduce a cash shop. However, I am disappointed that this is the direction SE has taken and have expressed that.

No, not just once but I have made my opinion clear and will continue to do so. Cash shops have never done well by any playerbase, but at least purely cosmetic items don't hurt anyone. In a game where you're meant to play many jobs on one character, charging for inventory space is charging a premium for something important to the game.

It's strange to me that people both say to the people who claim to be quitting "lol, you're quitting over this" and to the non-quitters "if you don't like it, quit".

First off, which cash shop are you talking about? This is an extra subscription option in the buy new content ID section of playonline. There is no cash shop.



Secondly, again. What "direction SE has taken"? You mean the one where they allow level 1 alts to get login points, use gobbie box, buy mog lottery tickets on all chars, or for people to buy power with alternate accounts? You are cherry picking something you feel is "p2w" when the game is littered with far worse anyway.

Where is your outrage at the p2w second account players? That's the most p2w thing in any mmo ever but you have no problem with that it seems?

[Secondplanet]

Lets be honest here, no matter how much we all paid in the past has no relevance to anything in the real world. I've paid around $400 on my mobile phone provider over the years, you know what that $400 gets me? Squat. You know what they tell me when I phone up and say I'm a long standing customer and I've paid $400!? They ask me to sign up for a 12 month contract going forward, it's worth nothing to anyone. You paid for the service you were given, entertainment from a service provider. You got $600-$800 worth of entertainment and think paying for that service entitles you to anything above and beyond that, it doesn't. You aren't doing them a favor, you paid for what they gave you in the past and if that service had not been good enough, you would of stopped paying. So please, get off your high horse with your listed payments.

So using your analogy about this then lets say your cell phone provider said they would be cutting out 2/3 of their phones they support, lower the amount of staff working for them and all around providing less service but keeping the price the same would you be happy? That about sums up what is happening here, less service for the same price and even including inflation still doesn't add up cause a $2-3 shouldn't be the difference between full support with expansions being made and what we have now.

Secondly, again. What "direction SE has taken"? You mean the one where they allow level 1 alts to get login points, use gobbie box, buy mog lottery tickets on all chars, or for people to buy power with alternate accounts? You are cherry picking something you feel is "p2w" when the game is littered with far worse anyway.

Where is your outrage at the p2w second account players? That's the most p2w thing in any mmo ever but you have no problem with that it seems?

As for this comment while i'm not a fan of players duoboxing as most will use programs to play their alt character, but for those who actually duobox with 2 computers i don't really blame them, if it was between me playing 2 characters knowing i know the jobs or picking up a player who might have gone 1-99 in one day, used skill books and thinks reading a wiki page teaches a job i will be happy to play alone.

But as for the mule aspect of this, mules were a big part of the game when i made mine, there wasn't log in events, there wasn't mog bonanzas the mules were made for storage, crafting and banks. Just because SE caught onto the issue years and years after they forced players to resort to such tactics to maintain inventory isn't our problem, they could have made it that only the "main" character of the account could get login points or bonanza balls but they made it that everyone could get them.

[Castanica]

So using your analogy about this then lets say your cell phone provider said they would be cutting out 2/3 of their phones they support, lower the amount of staff working for them and all around providing less service but keeping the price the same would you be happy? That about sums up what is happening here, less service for the same price and even including inflation still doesn't add up cause a $2-3 shouldn't be the difference between full support with expansions being made and what we have now.

If my mobile company sent me a letter saying that they had lost half of their customers so would have to lower the amount of services they can offer me for the same price I would look at what other companies can offer and decide what I want to do. What I would not do is stay with them and then complain about anything and everything because I chose to stick with it, own your choices in life.

When a game loses large numbers of players and the lead developer tells you that going forward it will only get minor updates, you made your informed choice to stay. When a game has 200k players all paying $13 they can offer a level of updates at that budget because they can afford to employ a decent sized team and make a profit, when they have 20k players paying $13 they now have far less money than before so cannot offer the same level of service. Dropping the subscription fee lower because they have a smaller dev team means they will bring in even less money than before and as such they can't even afford to pay the lower level of people they have now. Do you not see the logical result of what you're arguing for? Under normal circumstances this game would of already closed down, they are keeping it running and tryting to find ways to keep it profitable because we, the players begged them to do so. Now, you complain.

I mean for all we know, the developers love this game so much that they took a pay cut to work on in and keep it running.

You're like a man dangling from a clifftop, saved from death and then complaining at your saviour because he farted while he was pulling you up.

As for this comment while i'm not a fan of players duoboxing as most will use programs to play their alt character, but for those who actually duobox with 2 computers i don't really blame them, if it was between me playing 2 characters knowing i know the jobs or picking up a player who might have gone 1-99 in one day, used skill books and thinks reading a wiki page teaches a job i will be happy to play alone.

But as for the mule aspect of this, mules were a big part of the game when i made mine, there wasn't log in events, there wasn't mog bonanzas the mules were made for storage, crafting and banks. Just because SE caught onto the issue years and years after they forced players to resort to such tactics to maintain inventory isn't our problem, they could have made it that only the "main" character of the account could get login points or bonanza balls but they made it that everyone could get them.

I didn't ask if you/he was a fan of dual boxing, I'm straight up saying that it's pay to win by any way you want to measure it, so the slippery slope argument is out the window and into the trash. You pay $12 to get a real and massive advantage over everyone who does not pay that $12, it's pretty simple.

I don't have a problem with it, I have alt accounts but I'm pointing out the nonsense of your arguments.

"this p2w! this is just not acceptable, shame! but this p2w over here? This one is OK!!"

There are tons of people who pay $1 x however many mules to take advantage of mog lottery, gobbie box and login campaigns. This is paying money to get items and/or gil and it's a long running way they have used to increase the games profits, this apparantely does not trigger you but additional inventory when everyone already has more than they know what to do with does.

Sorry but the vocal minority are just being silly here, the vast majority either will or won't get it and really don't care.

Oh and btw, come the day they close this game down due to lack of funds and you or anyone in this thread on the "paying for extras is bad" side of the argument begs them not to and asks why. I'll throw it right back in your face.

[Seiowan]

Let's be honest here, we've paid them good money over the years which leased us access to our characters and the content on our accounts and the wardrobes. Having a further-leasable bonus does diminish the point of subscribing to a video game.

You're paying for a service which you have enjoyed for those same number of years so your argument here is a moot point. Additional services do not diminish anything, since they do not take anything away from the service you are currently receiving and enjoying. It is an addition, plain and simple.

It is the people who can't separate the two who are having the hardest time with this issue. For the rest of us, it's pretty cut and dry. By the same logic, what about people who didn't buy Treasures of Aht Urghan? They can't access the Mog Locker, so they can't have that extra storage. Should they magically be entitled because they pay a subscription? You might say the two are totally different because X, Y, Z, but they are in fact one and the same. They are additional services, for an additional fee. Just because you paid for one up-front doesn't change a bean.

[Cesil]

An expansion is a one time buy...not a monthly rent, just sayin...

I mean I dunno, I played ffxi since launch with breaks here and there, and been playing xiv since release and just unsubbed few days ago. The retainer rental never set right with me because...we were promised a free, extra retainer for a year, leading up to 3.0 release. When 3.0 came out we got no free retainer and were told basically, lol sry no retainer cuz if we did that the server will be too stressed.

Ok. But it can survive if everyone rented the extra 8?

I don't need the extra space and if I did I could rent it np, the issue is that there is no explanation why they suddenly need to rent out space and where the money is going and so forth. A little proper communication goes a long way. I left xiv cuz of the stale formula and constant broken promises and lies. I hope this game stays far away from that.