Enmity in "lower level" content

[Kjara]

Forgive me for asking (I'm a casual, and I'm still fairly behind in content), but what is this "lower level" content you speak of? I've read your post a couple times and I don't really see mention of low level content... unless I have a different idea of "lower level content" from you (I'm thinking of like... lv90- content, like Dynamis, and CoP/AU/WoTG endgame things, and the first two Abyssea expansions). What are "the taurus and demon" you are mentioning, specifically?

My main reason for asking is that although I do have a tank job, at those levels I find trusts just fine to work as tanks, so keeping enmity doesn't really seem a concern to me. Even my friends of non-tank jobs can tank that tier of content without getting maimed. My friend who is a 99 THF tanks most of the things we've done in dynamis and assaults.

So, what content are you aiming for exactly that makes keeping enmity so essential?

[OmnysValefor]

Forgive me for asking (I'm a casual, and I'm still fairly behind in content), but what is this "lower level" content you speak of?

...

Yeah, I regret the title a little bit, but I was referring to things that have lower level than 119, including content that inflates the monster's stats without actually affecting their level (like High Tier Battlefields).

Your thf friend tanking actual old stuff is fine and sensible. It doesn't make sense to bring a tank when a tank is not needed. A PLD that can't get hit (because his evasion is too high for some older NM) is pretty useless--mch of our TP comes shield blocks).

If a friend needs something old dead, say an abyssea NM and actually needs help, I'll go on blu or something and dd-tank as much as the mob wants to hit me.

I'm talking about a level of content where enmity is fractured to the point that it's not working (like old content) but still dangerous enough that you need the tank to be able to reliably tank.

Edit: And there's a ton of more-relevant things that many jobs can tank, which I don't mind. There are also things that need a dedicated tank and enmity is fracturing. Or just cases where you bring a dedicated tank and he has to struggle because of deliberate design.

[Shyles]

What is this "lower level" content you speak of? ... what content are you aiming for exactly that makes keeping enmity so essential?

Depending on your gear and damage output, the point at which your enmity generation becomes virtually uncontrollable varies. It is because of how they adjusted enmity a few years ago. To summarize it, There is a level scaling factor involved with how much cumulative enmity you generate. So the higher the enemy's level is in comparison to yours, the less cumulative enmity you generate with each point of damage. And the smaller the level gap is, the less enmity reduction you get from the scaling. So if you close a 35k darkness skillchain on a ilvl 130 monster, you probably wouldn't get aggro. However if you close a 35k skillchain on an ilvl 119 monster, then you might turn it toward you because you generate more enmity at that content level.

So I think what the OP means by low level is really "low content level or CL". At my Dancer's current gear quality, "low level" content for me is about ilvl 123 and below, since that's the point where it's almost impractical for a tank to be in the same party as me because I will probably take hate within two or three WSes. For others, it can be as high as ilvl 130ish. So the catch is that even though a melee player would generate less hate on higher content level, the AoE damage also gets higher, and they are prone to dying. In lower content level, they would generate much more enmity, take hate, and they are prone to dying.

It's a bit of a conundrum, and it's a problem that offensive magic jobs like scholars and black mages seem to be uniquely exempt from..

[Urmom]

It's a bit of a conundrum, and it's a problem that offensive magic jobs like scholars and black mages seem to be uniquely exempt from..

Not just them. Anyone using magical ws will create much less enmity than any mage outside of mbing and even then who knows since mb enmity reduction will never be tested lol.

[Kjara]

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Thanks both for explaining

Now that I understand I can definitely see the issue. I hope they get onto fixing it soon. I've always been perplexed at why they just couldn't give tank-specific jobs an higher enmity cap. Most of other games with role systems do.

[OmnysValefor]

Now that I understand I can definitely see the issue. I hope they get onto fixing it soon. I've always been perplexed at why they just couldn't give tank-specific jobs an higher enmity cap. Most of other games with role systems do.

I don't think tanks should have a higher enmity cap.

First, I don't know how hard it would be to programmatically change it.

Second, if it's too much higher, it's too easy to keep hate, but if it's not enough higher, the problems still exist because Volatile Enmity decays over time and Cumulative decays with damage taken.

Since enmity does work in high content, the proof is there that they can make the current system work.

Another factor is that anything that can be tanked by say, an average warrior can be tanked by a trust, with few exceptions.. and in those cases, find a real tank.