Job balancing?

[OmnysValefor]

Giving WAR its own indi-fury isn't quite the same thing. It won't put it in a better situation regarding accuracy, damage taken, amnesia, anything else.

BLU's mechanics (job traits), certain spells (saline coat, barrier tusk) are why it's a preferable choice. CDC's versaility, good damage, AM procs, are icing on the cake.

Edit: Other spells like its own Haste II, and of course Unbridled Spells like Mighty Guard, are very nice as well and can't be discounted.

In a lot of cases, content wouldn't have to be gone over with a fine-tooth comb.

* The evasion on some of these NMs is insane - easy to fix.
* Amnesia needs a spell given to whm and sch - easy to fix.
* Spike spells insta-gib dual wield melee - easy, to fix - make subtle blow apply -DT to spike spells.
* Completely revamp Usukane from Ambuscade. Noone would mind if it was identical to Sulevia's (replacing STP for say, DA/TA/something)

/clap to that we need other jobs to be = to the survivablity of BLU, BLU should not be the only job that can be in the end game content.

He uh, didn't actually make any suggestions regarding other melee's survivability.

Edit: I honestly believe that if Amnesia didn't shut down melee so completely (as well as gear-lockout moves), and melee weren't so prone to death, balance would be much better.

If melee didn't have a lot of risky baggage, people would use them. 2h'ers are capable of self-skillchaning (especially samurai), it's not that Dual Wield is so superior, it's just the jobs that get Dual Wield happen to have some knack for survivability and emergency self-healing (BLU's defenses, self healing, DNC's self healing, Ninja's defenses--though utsu largely obseleted by so much that wipes shadows). BLU's most useful traits are probably Accuracy Bonus (making hitting stuff easier) and DW (meaning that they can sub whatever is useful to the fight). DA/TA/STP/Skillchain Bonus/spells that increase DPS (Tenebral Crush, Nature's Meditation) aren't all such a big deal compared to the fact that blu is capable of hitting the boss and surviving the boss at the same time.

Giving Warrior all the attack in the world doesn't change this.

[Ulth]

I kinda did. If the melees can take care of their attack and accuracy on their own that opens up the supports to do things like vex, attunement, fend or scherzo.

[dmuller30]

He uh, didn't actually make any suggestions regarding other melee's survivability.

As for BLU, yes it does have spells and abilities that helps it overcome the brutal designs, so what is wrong with improving the other melee jobs' spells and abilities to help them overcome the brutal designs?

^
This is what BLUs have to make them survive. Which is the sentence I was more responding to. Improving all jobs would in turn make survivablity greater. . . .

[Urthdigger]

Job Balance has always been a problem in FFXI, the game has a very flexible job and ability system (Unlike FFXIV who solved this problem by making every job a reskin of each other) so it comes with the package.

Sadly, I don't think there is much they can do about it. Some jobs are always going to be more requested, and now that the game is in its final years the "most requested jobs" are set in stone. It's not a good situation, but what can you do.

The problem, as I've said before, is that job balance is worse nowadays than it ever was in the history of FFXI. Back at the old 75 cap days, while a few jobs were in higher demand than others, it wasn't like you couldn't do content as other jobs. They were just simply not as good.

Nowadays, the vast majority of jobs are complete and utter trash, you're literally better off bringing NOTHING than you are bringing them. Even barring the HP increase on bosses, the difference in damage between the good and trash jobs isn't an extra 25% here or there, it's more like triple the DPS, at LEAST. At the same time, the good jobs don't take damage from AoE, don't get shut down from enfeebles, don't pull hate off the tank... they're not in the same league anymore, they're not even in the same sport. That's how bad it's gotten.

[OmnysValefor]

Nowadays, the vast majority of jobs are complete and utter trash, you're literally better off bringing NOTHING than you are bringing them. Even barring the HP increase on bosses, the difference in damage between the good and trash jobs isn't an extra 25% here or there, it's more like triple the DPS, at LEAST.

Un-enfeebled and equally geared, I'm not sure the damage difference is quite triple. TBH, I'm not sure--pure DPS--what job is on top. Haven't played with mnk/war/sam/good thf/drg/dnc on anything serious in ages.

At the same time, the good jobs don't take damage from AoE, don't get shut down from enfeebles, don't pull hate off the tank... they're not in the same league anymore, they're not even in the same sport. That's how bad it's gotten.

Translation:

Good Jobs: Mages
Bad Jobs: Melee, even blu. Amnesia does the same thing to a BLU it does to every melee, as do ailments that restrict gear and item usage.

I'm not disagreeing. That pretty much sums it up.

[Helldemon]

Give every melee 15-20% DT, 15% DT II to bypass the 50% cap and a 30-35% status resist trait and that could fix melee from taking to much damage imo.

[OmnysValefor]

Giving melee -DT innately helps "right now", but it's their mindset that has to change.

Some AOE-heavy bosses are fine. Some fights where mages are superior is fine, just like melee being superior in some fights is fine. What we have here is very lopsided.

Giving melee resistance to enfeebles doesn't do much. It still screws things up when they get hit with it. Mages would still be preferable.

[Catmato]

and really the only job who is really set in stone is probably whm.

I hope not. I'm still hoping for my native dual-wield.

[Zekander]

WHM actually already has a spell to deal with amnesia. Baramnesra (yeah yeah lolbarspells). But if you actually try it, stack Baramnesra with Barfira (amnesia is fire based) and that will give you at least 50% resistance for most content (Incursion, SR, not really sure where else it's much of a problem). I've had parties in SR fighting Arcelia and Ingrid never see amnesia once with barspells up. And don't forget partial resists, with bar spells up even if it gets you, chances are good that it will be for 1/2 duration or even less.

I'm just saying that amnesia isn't really a barrier to melee, I totally agree that melee jobs need to be much more survivable. How exactly to do that without further cementing BLU as the only 'good' melee job, I don't know.

[Kensagaku]

WHM actually already has a spell to deal with amnesia. Baramnesra (yeah yeah lolbarspells). But if you actually try it, stack Baramnesra with Barfira (amnesia is fire based) and that will give you at least 50% resistance for most content (Incursion, SR, not really sure where else it's much of a problem). I've had parties in SR fighting Arcelia and Ingrid never see amnesia once with barspells up. And don't forget partial resists, with bar spells up even if it gets you, chances are good that it will be for 1/2 duration or even less.

I'm just saying that amnesia isn't really a barrier to melee, I totally agree that melee jobs need to be much more survivable. How exactly to do that without further cementing BLU as the only 'good' melee job, I don't know.

While I don't mean this in a disparaging way, I can't say that I believe this example. With my RUN's status resist set, I have 32% base resistance and a large amount of magic evasion and elemental resistance. For exact numbers: 15% status resistance from Tenacity, 17% from gear (Erilaz Gauntlets +1, Runeist Trousers +1, Hearty Earring), 406 total Meva, 98 to all elements but dark/light, which have 88 instead. Combined with three runes at max JP (+116 +213 total to the appropriate element), a Baraera from a good WHM (+185 Wind resist), and a Barsilencera from the same WHM, I still resist maybe 40% of the time against VD Garuda's Silencega. Granted, this is eyeballed, but on any sort of serious content, I imagine your "standard" melee isn't going to have nearly the same resistances with just a pair of barspells.

So yeah, amnesia is still an exceptionally large detriment to melee. I highly doubt that you'll be seeing a true 50% resist rate. But it's not just that; unremovable debuffs like the harpeia's paralyze, or potent debuffs such as an ironclad's stun or amnesia attacks combined with its max hp/mp down. Auras like golden kist's zombie aura, or charmga effects like from Vir'ava, etc. More and more content favors mages. I can't think of the last time I took my Mythic DRG to anything but Ambuscade, and certainly not to anything above T1 Reisenjima.