Job balancing?

[Olor]

PLD doesn't get fencer. It's beyond silly that PLD and RDM don't get it (and I'm generally not a fan of melee RDM).

BST doesn't need it, you're usually dual-wielding or often swapping weapons (charmer's merlin)

WAR should get something that applies to all weapon types, even if it was only ws damage +10%. The theme of the class is proficiency in weapons.

Wow, fencer is even worse than I thought... and bard? Really? REALLY?

[Ulth]

Anyway if I was going to fix war this is what I would do. Let's ignore fencer, basically it lets war do one hand if they choose to. Focus on abilities of war that works for both 2 hand and 1 hand wars, as well as things that would make it more desirable in a party. First I would switch the duration and recast of Warcry, Blood Rage, and Tomahawk, that way not only could they be full timed but if they get dispelled some how it's not the end of the world, you just get a little job ability delay. I would also change the merits for warcry from lowering the recast to increasing the amount of attack it gives. With full merits I think the new potency of warcry should be somewhere in the 50-60% increase in attack similar to a geo fury. As for Tomahawk instead of increasing the duration of the debuff it should increase the potency of by 5% with every merit past the first so that works out as 45%, and 50% if you use the relic legs.

[Jin_Uzuki]

Job Balance has always been a problem in FFXI, the game has a very flexible job and ability system (Unlike FFXIV who solved this problem by making every job a reskin of each other) so it comes with the package.

Sadly, I don't think there is much they can do about it. Some jobs are always going to be more requested, and now that the game is in its final years the "most requested jobs" are set in stone. It's not a good situation, but what can you do.

[Ulth]

Job Balance has always been a problem in FFXI, the game has a very flexible job and ability system (Unlike FFXIV who solved this problem by making every job a reskin of each other) so it comes with the package.

Sadly, I don't think there is much they can do about it. Some jobs are always going to be more requested, and now that the game is in its final years the "most requested jobs" are set in stone. It's not a good situation, but what can you do.

Personally I don't think the game is in its final years, and really the only job who is really set in stone is probably whm. As it stands run and pld are about on equal footing and are pretty interchangeable. Really a lot of the current problem with job balance and other jobs being more requested really boils down to melee set ups not being as viable as magic burst ones. Melee needs much more support than magic burst. That's why I suggested the changes to war like I did. They should buff up melee jobs' party buffs and let them be used full time. That way the melees in the party can support each other and you don't need 2 geos, and a brd for your melee set up. The goal of these changes should be that for a melee party you only need a geo or a brd.

It's funny some guy quoted my purposed changes to war in another thread saying it was making the job OP, but is it though? Even if the new warcry and tomahawk buffs become must haves for melee set ups, it's not like you will have whole parties of wars. You can't get warcry twice. That is what I think is genius about the changes it makes the job desirable but you don't end up like the previous bandwagons where all the DDs are blm, or all bst, or all thf, or all sam, or all mnk, or all rng, ect.

[OmnysValefor]

Ulth, I don't play Warrior ever so I held my opinion back at first but since you asked..

A fulltimeable (aside from dispels soon after use) 60% buff to attack.. Really? That does seem obnoxiously overpowered. Non-Idris GEO's attack buff isn't even that powerful. You want this on Warcry.. would you have it be as powerful for all party members? That makes warrior simply mandatory in any melee setup.

Tanks and Healers are mandatory but PLD and WHM are not, it could be RUN and SCH or in certain content RDM and NIN. GEO is mandatory because GEO is a modern job designed around modern mechanics--cor needs a buff and bard needs an overhaul. A buffer being mandatory is fine, one particular buffer being mandatory is stupid.

Your design would make warrior mandatory.

BLU is the closest thing to a mandatory melee right now because it does the best at overcoming the crappy situation all melee are in. The evasion on some of these bosses man.. it's obscene. The aoe-damage they do is insane. I don't care about single-target damage. I'm a tank, hit me harder please.

Scholars are mandatory in setups not involving melee. If you're relying on melee skillchaining, scholars and BLMs are generally interchangeable (BLM doesn't have Helix II, useful JA's, the ability to SC if the melee can't, SCH doesn't have Death, native MAB (storms help), etc).

[Ulth]

Ulth, I don't play Warrior ever so I held my opinion back at first but since you asked..

A fulltimeable (aside from dispels soon after use) 60% buff to attack.. Really? That does seem obnoxiously overpowered. Non-Idris GEO's attack buff isn't even that powerful. You want this on Warcry.. would you have it be as powerful for all party members? That makes warrior simply mandatory in any melee setup.

Tanks and Healers are mandatory but PLD and WHM are not, it could be RUN and SCH or in certain content RDM and NIN. GEO is mandatory because GEO is a modern job designed around modern mechanics--cor needs a buff and bard needs an overhaul. A buffer being mandatory is fine, one particular buffer being mandatory is stupid.

Your design would make warrior mandatory.

BLU is the closest thing to a mandatory melee right now because it does the best at overcoming the crappy situation all melee are in. The evasion on some of these bosses man.. it's obscene. The aoe-damage they do is insane. I don't care about single-target damage. I'm a tank, hit me harder please.

Scholars are mandatory in setups not involving melee. If you're relying on melee skillchaining, scholars and BLMs are generally interchangeable (BLM doesn't have Helix II, useful JA's, the ability to SC if the melee can't, SCH doesn't have Death, native MAB (storms help), etc).

War was just an example. I want all melee jobs to have something that benefits the party in that way. Sure if war was the only job that got a buff like that it wouldn't be that fair but if drg's Angon got a similar buff then to deal with attack you could take drg to lower the targets defense, or war to boost the party's attack. Is it making sense yet? Dancer can be changed so Saber and Fan dance doesn't block sambas and waltz and haste samba could be boosted making so the party needs less magic haste. Thfs could have feint and conspirator buffed and the supports wouldn't need to focus all on accuracy. Mnks could increase max hp and inhibit tp and increase the party's max HP making them harder to kill. If all the DDs had some unique buff to contribute then you could use any combination of DDs and have the support fill in the spots where the rest of the party is lacking.

[OmnysValefor]

I just don't think the job design is the problem (JP design is pretty bad in some cases).. I think it's more about the design of the content than people are willing to give it credit for.

Like I said, BLU is just among the best at overcoming the brutal design melees are up against.

[dmuller30]

I just don't think the job design is the problem (JP design is pretty bad in some cases).. I think it's more about the design of the content than people are willing to give it credit for.

Like I said, BLU is just among the best at overcoming the brutal design melees are up against.

Totally agree with this. I am a BLU main because I can't go any other melee job, because those other jobs just cannot last against the crazy requirements needed to face those mobs. Not to toot my horn but my MNK is pretty geared, and I still can't survive on it and if I want to survive on it I have to keep running away which makes me useless because I can't even land any DPS on mobs because why . . . . I have to run away from AOE every 5 seconds lol.

[Ulth]

I just don't think the job design is the problem (JP design is pretty bad in some cases).. I think it's more about the design of the content than people are willing to give it credit for.

Like I said, BLU is just among the best at overcoming the brutal design melees are up against.

It's not like I'm changing those job's designs. Those are all abilities that they have. Only for the most part they don't use them anymore, because they are too weak or don't last long. And I do agree that the content design is a big problem, some fights the AoEs do more damage than the single target attacks, but it's not like they can go through all of those fights with a fine tooth comb to fix them all. However they should keep these things in mind when making any new content.

As for blu, yes it does have spells and abilities that helps it overcome the brutal designs, so what is wrong with improving the other melee jobs' spells and abilities to help them overcome the brutal designs?

[dmuller30]

It's not like I'm changing those job's designs. Those are all abilities that they have. Only for the most part they don't use them anymore, because they are too weak or don't last long. And I do agree that the content design is a big problem, some fights the AoEs do more damage than the single target attacks, but it's not like they can go through all of those fights with a fine tooth comb to fix them all. However they should keep these things in mind when making any new content.

As for blu, yes it does have spells and abilities that helps it overcome the brutal designs, so what is wrong with improving the other melee jobs' spells and abilities to help them overcome the brutal designs?

/clap to that we need other jobs to be = to the survivablity of BLU, BLU should not be the only job that can be in the end game content.