Job balancing?

[OmnysValefor]

As a part-time blu, BLU JP categories (+20 BM points especially) and bonuses feel like the job leveled up which is probably how JP are supposed to feel.

I'd rather them buff jobs that got lackluster JP categories.

Recognizing that BLU is probably the most powerful, most sought-after melee right now doesn't mean it's overpowered, it means other melee could use a buff, because none of us are wanted if Scholars and Black Mages are effective against the boss.

[machini]

As a part-time blu, BLU JP categories (+20 BM points especially) and bonuses feel like the job leveled up which is probably how JP are supposed to feel.

I'd rather them buff jobs that got lackluster JP categories.

Recognizing that BLU is probably the most powerful, most sought-after melee right now doesn't mean it's overpowered, it means other melee could use a buff, because none of us are wanted if Scholars and Black Mages are effective against the boss.

I don't think you understand. BLU job point gifts are so mindbogglingly overpowered compared to all other jobs that they need to be toned down significantly. Having two free levels of all your traits, combined with the ability to choose which traits to set is too powerful. Especially when you compare it to jobs like DNC, or PUP, where your job point gifts actually hurt you.

There is a reason that BLU is the most sought-after melee right now, and it's because it's broken. And they won't fix it because they don't want to admit that they made a mistake.

Let's look at some other Jobs' 100 and 1200 point gifts, and compare them to two free levels of whatever job traits you want to set, excluding TA and TH.

WAR gets 10% crit rate.
MNK gets 10 martial arts, which hurts MNK.
WHM gets Reraise IV and Full Cure. Every WHM I have spoken to says Full Cure is completely useless.
BLM gets Tier VI nukes and Death. Death consumes all your MP, and BLMs hate having MP.
RDM gets Tier V nukes, Refresh III, and Temper II. You know, for all that meleeing RDMs do these days, and do you honestly want me to believe people bring RDM along specifically to cast Refresh III? Wonderful use of a slot in the party.
THF's raises the cap on TH by two. Not gives +2 TH and breaks the soft cap, but gives you a super tiny chance to get to TH 14. It'd just take 10~20 minutes, or more, of wailing on something that a) won't be living that long, and b) will probably one-shot you if it so much as looks in your direction.
PLD gets Enlight II, which they desperately need because they have major ACC issues, and 20% more damage returned by reprisal, a spell with a 1 minute duration and 3 minute cast time. So unless a PLD can achieve -66% recast time, this gift is actually useless a significant portion of the time. Assuming a PLD will have Haste II or equivalent and capped gear haste, you're looking at ~-55% recast time, which still leaves this gift useless 1/4th of the time, assuming it lasts its full duration, in which case it's even worse, since Reprisal's damage reflection has a cap after which it wears off, and there goes your block rate bonus from it.
DRK gets Endark II, which is nice, I guess, and 20% more HP drained by Dread Spikes, which, again, if you're playing DRK on current, relevant content, and something so much as looks at you for more than a few seconds, you're likely dead. Dread Spikes has a Duration of 3 minute and a recast of 3 minutes, but, given the fact that it's going to absorb, at most, 88% of your max HP, and considering that most end game monsters can one shot you, you're looking at it protecting you from maybe 4 or 5 hits, or maybe 2 or 3 TP moves, tops. Which probably will make it wear off long before you can recast it.
BST gets Sic and Ready recast time reduction of 5s, reduction on charges of Ready by 5s, and pet TP Bonus+40. God, those sure are on par with two free levels of any job traits you want.
BRD gets a second tier of Threnody and 5% increased song duration. So you get 6 extra seconds of song length, and Threnody IIs. Those are both nearly completely useless, and, see above commentary on BST. Especially considering all the fancy new spells BLU has gotten lately, but that is a thing that applies to all casters other than BLU.
RNG gets 10% ranged attack delay reduction while under the effect of Velocity Shot, which as a 2 minute duration and a 5 minute recast time. So 60% of the time, Ranger's gift, that is considered of the same 'power' as BLU's 2 free job trait levels, is completely useless.
SAM gets, under Hasso, a 10% chance that Zanshin will activate even on a hit, and under Seigan, a 10% increase in the Zanshin activation rate.
NIN gets Utsusemi: San, which is 5 base images instead of 3/4, and 5% WSD. Utsusemi: San is subject to all the 'flaws' that Ni and Ichi have, such as it being useless against a lot of things that will one shot you.
DRG gets a buff to their incredibly fragile pet.
SMN gets 15 more attack, ranged attack, and defense for their pets, and 5 second reduction on blood pact delays. That 15 ATT, RATT, and DEF sure are on par with an entire free level of all your job traits.
COR gets 10% ranged attack delay reduction, which probably hurts COR for the same reason MNK, PUP, and DNC are hurt by their delay reductions.
PUP gets 4 extra points per element for attaching equipment to their automaton, and, let's be honest, that sounds a lot better than it actually is.
DNC gets 4 extra maximum finishing moves. That is nice, I will say, as a DNC, but all it really means is that I don't have to do a step after using 5 Finishing Moves, such as on Reverse Flourish or Climactic Flourish, or any of the other abilities that consume 5 finishing moves, which still remains the maximum that can be consumed at once. Being able to Step, wait 5 seconds, Step, wait 5 seconds, Step, Weapon Skill, Reverse Flourish, Climactic Flourish, and then Weapon Skill instead of having to Step, Step, and then doing a third step between Reverse Flourish and Climactic Flourish is nowhere near on par with BLU's gifts, especially considering the relatively long recasts of some DNC JAs which, unless spells, can't get -80% recast time. Like BLU can get. Also this is only really "great" if you're a mythic DNC, since then you can get 9 finishing moves in 3 steps, whereas other, non-Mythic, DNCs will require 5. But your job point gifts should not REQUIRE a mythic to be good.
SCH gets Tier II storms and Tier II helixes.
GEO gets Tier V nukes and Tier III -ra spells. Which is great, compared to 2 free levels of all job traits, right? Especially considering that these are you gifts, whereas BLU has gotten new, very powerful, spells like mad.
RUN gets 20% increased duration on enhancement spells received. You know. Those things that are going to get dispelled frequently.

[edited for politeness]

[OmnysValefor]

I don't think you understand. BLU job point gifts are so mindbogglingly overpowered compared to all other jobs that they need to be toned down significantly. Having two free levels of all your traits, combined with the ability to choose which traits to set is too powerful. Especially when you compare it to jobs like DNC, or PUP, where your job point gifts actually hurt you.

There is a reason that BLU is the most sought-after melee right now, and it's because it's broken. And they won't fix it because they don't want to admit that they made a mistake.

Let's look at some other Jobs' 100 and 1200 point gifts, and compare them to two free levels of whatever job traits you want to set, excluding TA and TH.

[...]

Oh no, I do totally understand

A lot of jobs got the shaft. Either the guys designing JP gifts really understood BLU or really didn't. I would love to see an overhaul of many jobs JP gifts (not GEO's though--I think GEO's base is too high to need much love and I think that the synergy of the gifts giving skill means you can change your midcast set is a wonderful thing. T5 nukes may be a silly gift, but GEO just... doesn't need much).

Towards the thread I linked above, an old one of mine, I'd point out that whoever designed gifts really didn't understand PLD, and really didn't understand Monk.

It is true that most jobs in the game would trade their 100/1200 for (Two free tiers of all your native job traits) and I understand how much more potent blu's is due to versatility.

[Kassaiemi]

Oh no, I do totally understand

A lot of jobs got the shaft. Either the guys designing JP gifts really understood BLU or really didn't. I would love to see an overhaul of many jobs JP gifts (not GEO's though--I think GEO's base is too high to need much love and I think that the synergy of the gifts giving skill means you can change your midcast set is a wonderful thing. T5 nukes may be a silly gift, but GEO just... doesn't need much).

Towards the thread I linked above, an old one of mine, I'd point out that whoever designed gifts really didn't understand PLD, and really didn't understand Monk.

It is true that most jobs in the game would trade their 100/1200 for (Two free tiers of all your native job traits) and I understand how much more potent blu's is due to versatility.

I just have a hard time thinking of anything that would be an equivalent power boost to other jobs that match the sheer number of new spells and the power of traits available to BLU. It's especially bad in the case of RDM, where BLU has more or less become a better RDM. You're a much more balanced caster/melee hybrid, you're a hell of a lot more powerful, and you still have party wide buffs, at the cost of not having the powerful disables RDM has, but on the flip side, it's extremely difficult to land those disables on things that matter anyways. What would you even do to bring RDM back into playability, when comparing it to the bar BLU has set? Go against its class design and give it AOEs? Massively reduce the resistance to debuffs bosses have? Massively increase its spell damage and put it on par with BLM or SCH and, again, go against its class design? Massively buff its heals to make it compete with WHM and SCH for healing?

I'd love to see buffs to the other jobs that bring them "up to BLU's level" but I'm completely stumped on what any such buffs would even be, other than just upping trait levels, layering on tons of new spells and abilities (which might not even be possible within the limitations of the game engine), and making the (non-BLU) melees about thirty times tankier. Which would in turn further polarize the difference between no JP BLUs and fully farmed BLUs which is a whole other kettle of fish. I dunno. BLU does have the distinction of being one of -- if not the most -- farm-intensive jobs to actually become relevant, but when it DOES become relevant, it turns into such complete BS.

[Ketaru]

It's especially bad in the case of RDM, where BLU has more or less become a better RDM. You're a much more balanced caster/melee hybrid, you're a hell of a lot more powerful, and you still have party wide buffs, at the cost of not having the powerful disables RDM has, but on the flip side, it's extremely difficult to land those disables on things that matter anyways. What would you even do to bring RDM back into playability, when comparing it to the bar BLU has set

The two jobs don't even compete for the same party spot. If you want to go by BLU's current desired role alone, yes RDM can self-skillchain Light/Darkness fairly consistently. Probably has an easier time of it than most other melee jobs. And if a group I'm in just wanted me to do Light, regardless of how much damage the weaponskills themselves actually do, I'm sure RDM could easily do it.

You know what I want for RDM right now? More Magic Burst Damage bonuses. That would make it far more competitive. As it is now, it doesn't even hold a candle to what BLM and SCH can do. Let's get rid of that Shield Mastery BS and give the job a few more traits of Magic Burst Damage.

[Kassaiemi]

The two jobs don't even compete for the same party spot. If you want to go by BLU's current desired role alone, yes RDM can self-skillchain Light/Darkness fairly consistently. Probably has an easier time of it than most other melee jobs. And if a group I'm in just wanted me to do Light, regardless of how much damage the weaponskills themselves actually do, I'm sure RDM could easily do it.

You know what I want for RDM right now? More Magic Burst Damage bonuses. That would make it far more competitive. As it is now, it doesn't even hold a candle to what BLM and SCH can do. Let's get rid of that Shield Mastery BS and give the job a few more traits of Magic Burst Damage.

Maybe I'm just way off base then. It just really seems lousy that the biggest part of RDM's kit, the hugely powerful enfeebles, gets kicked to the curb by NMs sitting there going "lol immune" until you land one for a whopping ten seconds when it's at 35%, and there's BLU doing caster/swordsman better, and SCH doing white mage+black mage better. Maybe RDM is just spread too thin or something. Or it's because the only RDM I've ever really known is my own terribly geared RDM.

RDMs being able to get absurdly huge magic bursts without necessarily having great non-magic burst spell damage would be a pretty rad thing though. It'd be super relevant in the current setup, anyways.

[cengeal]

I don't think you understand. BLU job point gifts are so mindbogglingly overpowered compared to all other jobs that they need to be toned down significantly. Having two free levels of all your traits, combined with the ability to choose which traits to set is too powerful. Especially when you compare it to jobs like DNC, or PUP, where your job point gifts actually hurt you.

RNG gets 10% ranged attack delay reduction while under the effect of Velocity Shot, which as a 2 minute duration and a 5 minute recast time. So 60% of the time, Ranger's DRG gets a buff to their incredibly fragile pet.

[edited for politeness]

Velocity Shot lasts 2 hours, not 2 minutes. Not sure why you thought it lasted 2 minutes. Secondly, DRG wyverns are not that fragile. The DRG however, is. And DRG gifts are actually pretty good. You also didn't post every 550 JP Gifts, which is okay, but leaving that out can be rather misleading. RUN gets Temper, which is actually pretty awesome for a true melee. RDM gets new enfeebles, which are pretty useful (if they land). DRK gets Drain III, which can cap your max hp. There are other pretty awesome 550 JP Gifts, but I don't feel like listing them all.

You are correct: Some jobs get crappy gifts, others get good ones, some get amazing gifts. This is a fact. If anything, I think the inequality of JP Gifts demonstrates SE's limited vision of the future, or the lack of understanding of the jobs. They don't seem to have a vision for some jobs in the game's future, so they just give them basic gifts that are "neat". If anything, the values on some of them could be adjusted to help make up for the lack of a game changing gift. Or just change it altogether. Example: Take away enhanced martial arts for MNK, give crit rate+5%. That's just one example.

Finally: nerfing BLU will only make the game harder. It won't make other jobs like DRK or PUP any better.