Job balancing?

[OmnysValefor]

Immanence is the elephant in the room that noone talks about. That's for sure.

[dmuller30]

I'm going to get a lot of hate for this, but I think SCH needs to be "adjusted". A backline job that can repeatedly self SC while remaining out of harm's way is just... stupid.

What I'm proposing is simple, but would not eliminate the viability, merely the practicality of the strategy. I say any SC that closes with Immanence should have a Magic Burst damage penalty. Let's say this is a small amount (-20%). The Average BLM will have zero chance of capping damage with this penalty. Now, let's say this is an extreme amount (-50%). This would help the "safer, but takes longer" aspect of strategies. And a poorly geared team would basically be required to either A) change their approach or B) go get A LOT better.

Another idea is: have spells do a % of the damage that the skillchain dealt. For example, if a SCH's distortion did 2,000 damage, the Magic Burst could only deal up to 1000% of that (20,000). This is just an example, I think each level nuke should have its own equation and damage multiplier. This would make the actual SC damage relevant again. This would also help entice players into making more multiple step SC's, which could help nukers hit the damage cap.

Like I said, I know I'm going to get a lot of hate for this. I know it won't make meleeing things any easier. But... it just might make it more preferable. A safe strategy should not be the ideal strategy. I know a lot needs to happen on the road to rebalancing jobs. I'm completely convinced there will be some people that disagree with this so much they will condemn me on these forums, but I don't care.

Getting better really has nothing to do with it. The mobs are unbalanced with AOE spam. We need DT sets for melee because the amount of aoe spam they have to deal with is garbage. Taking away from the player community by putting a 20%- on magic bursts wouldn't be the route to go unless SE wants a bunch of mad customers. It just needs to be reformed so that way each job is useful like the lvl 75 days. Back in those days each job was useful there were preffered jobs but all jobs could go do end game content, unlike range/ mage only content we have today.

[OmnysValefor]

Getting better really has nothing to do with it. The mobs are unbalanced with AOE spam. We need DT sets for melee because the amount of aoe spam they have to deal with is garbage. Taking away from the player community by putting a 20%- on magic bursts wouldn't be the route to go unless SE wants a bunch of mad customers. It just needs to be reformed so that way each job is useful like the lvl 75 days. Back in those days each job was useful there were preffered jobs but all jobs could go do end game content, unlike range/ mage only content we have today.

AOE Spam is part of it, but there's a lot more going on than that. Enfeebling AOES (especially paralyzes so potent that you can't remedy and no practical way to remove Amensia, and even a well timed Blind by the boss) are a huge part of it.

Said it before, say it again: Melee require too much babysitting when a pair of scholars can do the same job far more efficiently, in lesser gear. (An evaded attack means a miss. A magic-evaded attack means a resist). Since your party will have some mages (50-99k MBs for minimal tp feed and minimal hate is too lovely not to embrace), its easier with just mages. The GEO buffs to favor them and doesn't worry about melee who aren't there.

And each job did not have a use at 75 besides niche fights. They were called lolpup and lolbst for a reason. DNC was pretty awful, THF and sometimes DRG were only wanted for TH and Angon. SCH replaced SMN for buff-magic.

[dmuller30]

AOE Spam is part of it, but there's a lot more going on than that. Enfeebling AOES (especially paralyzes so potent that you can't remedy and no practical way to remove Amensia, and even a well timed Blind by the boss) are a huge part of it.

Said it before, say it again: Melee require too much babysitting when a pair of scholars can do the same job far more efficiently, in lesser gear. (An evaded attack means a miss. A magic-evaded attack means a resist). Since your party will have some mages (50-99k MBs for minimal tp feed and minimal hate is too lovely not to embrace), its easier with just mages. The GEO buffs to favor them and doesn't worry about melee who aren't there.

And each job did not have a use at 75 besides niche fights. They were called lolpup and lolbst for a reason. DNC was pretty awful, THF and sometimes DRG were only wanted for TH and Angon. SCH replaced SMN for buff-magic.

Every job had some purpose there wasn't lolpup when it had it's over powered ja set and bst well you are right there lol. . . . . DNC on Titan / Pheonix servers were pretty nice I don't have any clue what you are talking about DNC and THF were both used pretty fairly in the HNMLS I was inm because DNC could survive so many different things that other jobs couldn't and could help keep a party alive while putting out dps. THF still had its uses and so did a good DRG. SMN . . . . don't even get me started on what that job needs because the list on that job is enough to write a novel about, I don't understand why that job has never really caught up with the other jobs in the entire what 13/14 years the game has been out? Anyways back at lvl 75 there were the preferred jobs but they weren't set in stone as must have jobs like we have now.

[OmnysValefor]

Every job had some purpose there wasn't lolpup when it had it's over powered ja set and bst well you are right there lol. . . . . DNC on Titan / Pheonix servers were pretty nice I don't have any clue what you are talking about DNC and THF were both used pretty fairly in the HNMLS I was inm because DNC could survive so many different things that other jobs couldn't and could help keep a party alive while putting out dps. THF still had its uses and so did a good DRG. SMN . . . . don't even get me started on what that job needs because the list on that job is enough to write a novel about, I don't understand why that job has never really caught up with the other jobs in the entire what 13/14 years the game has been out? Anyways back at lvl 75 there were the preferred jobs but they weren't set in stone as must have jobs like we have now.

When DNC was introduced, DNC did similar dmg to thf without SATA to back it up. DNC at 75 (at least for the first year or two of WoTG) was impotent.

BST at 75? It was basically a warrior without any offensive ability, and since it did its best with /nin, it got nothing from sub either. The pets were laughable because they couldn't hit anything remotely difficult.

BST is in a good spot now and was in a really great spot for a long time, but it was crap at 75. THF was used for two things -- Treasure hunter and hate-control and if it didn't have TH, noone would have brought it.

So what is the new king of blocking?

Don't laugh, Priwen while Reprisal is up--so you build yourself a good haste/fc set and cast Reprisal in that. Aeonic blocks more-per-hit but blocks much less often. I don't like it anymore than anyone else but SE is fine with where shields are at.

[xiozen]

In review of the "gifts"...I'm wondering if this concept really continues to hold true for jobs that have already been mastered... since the gifts do provide over time and cumulatively, a significant boost to all aspects of the job (phy def, mag def, mag attk, attck, acc, mag acc etc. etc.) unless some gifts don't provide these types of boosts on the way to 2100... if all jobs receive these benefits, is rebalancing necessary??? I've personally witnessed the difficulties of a mastered "master" bst, "NOT" being one-shotted during sinister reign vs, non-mastered jobs getting wiped during the 1st aoe...

[Urthdigger]

In review of the "gifts"...I'm wondering if this concept really continues to hold true for jobs that have already been mastered... since the gifts do provide over time and cumulatively, a significant boost to all aspects of the job (phy def, mag def, mag attk, attck, acc, mag acc etc. etc.) unless some gifts don't provide these types of boosts on the way to 2100... if all jobs receive these benefits, is rebalancing necessary??? I've personally witnessed the difficulties of a mastered "master" bst, "NOT" being one-shotted during sinister reign vs, non-mastered jobs getting wiped during the 1st aoe...

Yes, even with gifts job balancing is a major issue. For starters, the gap between melee and magic effectiveness is just that massive, but there's also the issue of jobs where the gifts don't help them. Take monk for instance: Almost all their job specific gifts (so, minus things like small amounts of att/acc, superior equipment, capacity point bonuses, etc) are things that help counter and guard. You know, for all the tanking people have monk doing. The one gift that does "help" damage is a martial arts bonus, but that speeds up attacks while reducing TP gained, and if we can already hit the delay cap that's actually a straight up detriment.

[OmnysValefor]

We don't have to "argue" Stompa. We can have polite debate or disagreement .

I'd heard of Xolotl solos by BST but never saw it. I had never heard of BSTs vs O.Hat NM (that I reacall), but cool^^.

A monk solo'd genbu by boost>boost...>boost Chi Blasting for a long long time. While these feats are respectable, it doesn't say as much about the job as it does about the player (skill and endurance). These jobs were still not wanted in endgame activities. My very first EGLS had an Armadaberk. He had every piece of gear a WAR would want, and he played BST. He enjoyed it, and that was fine, but he did lackluster damage and CourierCarrie contributed nothing to be even worth the rewards.

Lots of jobs could do amazing things in the game world, but the point I'm replying to is that all jobs were useful at 75 in endgame (the thread, after all, is called Job Balancing).

[OmnysValefor]

Can't resist, have to add--

PLDs JP categories and gifts are also lackluster, and it's 1200 (Reprisal deals more damage) might actually be detrimental to the job. It depends on how the formula for increased damage is applied.