Job balancing?

[Hyrist]

Just because main healing used to be unpleasant (bear a lot of this was against mobs where debuff removal was mostly unnecessary) doesn't change the fact that one job has this unquestioned seat at the table. That's job imbalance. Thing is, I don't think WHM is overpowered at all. I think we're all just glad that at least one job out there is capable of meeting the challenge of healing against some of the new endgame content. But similar to the discussions about whether BLU is overpowered or not, it might be time to think about improving the healing chops of other jobs, like RDM, SCH, DNC, maybe even WHM as a subjob. If more jobs were better healers, it would be one step in making things better for other jobs as well, such as meleers who are invited less because of the risk involved with using them.

I don't beleive this is a problem with the mechanics as much as I used to.

I just saw Scholar pretty much main heal an Escha Zi'tah run's healing with just Regen and a spot cure.

This is a matter of desire behind role, and how healers are just plain uninviting, especially on classes, Like Red Mage, that are capable of other, more fun roles. White Mage is unquestionably the go-to for healers because that's ALL it is. It's a healer, everyone knows that it is more than the role and the specialty, it's White Mage's identity. You ask Scholar to heal and they're going to question about it being about the party being efficient enough - that's where the Mage Burns really clinch their argument.

Scholars are capable of taking a party healer role on themselves. Hybrids roles like Red Mage, Dancer, Blue Mage and Summoner can help alleviate the healing role (do we really count Puppetmaster and Bard?), but none of them want to. That's more the reason why White Mage has absolutely no contest when it comes to the role, and most players are ok that way. Sure, boosting certain Job's capabilities of doing so may help the performance gap. But it's not as large as it's being played out if all your Hybrids actually used the skills they have to split down the healing role. This is another problem that has as much of the burden for it on the community as it does the developers.

On the development end, less emphasis in wide severe AoE Damage is more the solution than buffing classes to stuff they won't do anyways better. The test of that will be prevalent when SMN's healing pacts get buffed, but rarely utilized to their fullest. It's that predictable.

I've had people complain against me in the past for being rather harsh in telling newbies and returning players to give up on their dreams of leveling whatever job they mentioned. The way I see it, better they find out now and step into line early than to find out several months down the line.

I'd say, respectfully. You are being harsh.

For the most part, you're wrong about the dream thing. Most of any REM can be soloed, and what's the epitome of endgame to a player's personal progression if not that? Escha is over-hyped for its randomness at the highest level of gears, and there is alternative progression pieces for most items. Yes, it's not Best in Slot but the more you push your gear, the easier it becomes to convince the friends you make down the line to let you in to do things. Speaking from experience.

I've got no problem telling people they're in for a hard road, so they go in with the right level of determination. Telling them to quit and 'fall in line'? No, that's just destructive. You'll lose people that way.

[Urthdigger]

I've got no problem telling people they're in for a hard road, so they go in with the right level of determination. Telling them to quit and 'fall in line'? No, that's just destructive. You'll lose people that way.

In a way, I am simply telling people they're in for a hard road. I usually prefer that they oppose me and stride forward out of spite. If there is some way to utilize these jobs without waiting for SE to buff the living crap out of them, they'll be the ones to find it. Perhaps it's destructive, but I don't consider it a grave crime to lose people. Any who'd leave over my words would just as well leave when they finally start trying to party and hear the endless chorus of "Don't you have anything else?"

[OmnysValefor]

Just because main healing used to be unpleasant (bear a lot of this was against mobs where debuff removal was mostly unnecessary) doesn't change the fact that one job has this unquestioned seat at the table. That's job imbalance. Thing is, I don't think WHM is overpowered at all. I think we're all just glad that at least one job out there is capable of meeting the challenge of healing against some of the new endgame content. But similar to the discussions about whether BLU is overpowered or not, it might be time to think about improving the healing chops of other jobs, like RDM, SCH, DNC, maybe even WHM as a subjob. If more jobs were better healers, it would be one step in making things better for other jobs as well, such as meleers who are invited less because of the risk involved with using them.

Glad I stumbled onto this, rather than restating it later in the thread.

I've said similar things about BLU before.

People that look at BLU and get upset think it's CDC that make it powerful. It's not CDC. If the paladin could reliably self-skillchain against single-target mobs, people wouldn't even want a melee.

It's Accuracy Bonus, allowing the BLU a stronger accuracy boost while wearing more defensive gear.

It's Dual Wield, allowing the BLU to sub whatever is appropriate to the fight. Sometimes, NIN is the most appropriate, sometimes RDM is, sometimes RUN is.

It's spells like Saline Coat (+magic defense bonus) which mitigates the magic damage the blu takes, and barrier tusk which provides some additional PDT.

It's sometimes self heals. When your hp goes read, casting a cure whether the whm is casting or not may be what saves you.

Double Attack, Triple Attack, Attack Bonus, Magic Accuracy Bonus, all of things are just icing on the cake.

In this skillchain environement, people don't care how much the ws's and sc bonus are (really, have you seen how much scholars typically do?), all they care about is that the melee doing them can hit the boss and survive the boss.

Scholars are preferable because they're not exposed to the danger that most melee, including blu, are.

I'll say it til I'm blu in the face.

- - -

It's is funny how we don't want top tanks nerfed, we want lesser tanks buffed. We don't want WHMs curagas nerfed, we want lesser healers buffed but the reason you're not inviting my drk must absolutely be that BLU exists (in fairness: I don't have a drk, I have a modestly geared blu that goes to modest content).

[Afania]

People that look at BLU and get upset think it's CDC that make it powerful. It's not CDC. If the paladin could reliably self-skillchain against single-target mobs, people wouldn't even want a melee.

Umm, PLD could already reliably self-skillchain against single-target mobs, in fact any melee job with enough buffs can. We still want a melee(BLU).

[Raydeus]

I thought most NM's were immune to req? Besides, Sch's can do 100 times that in DoT so <.<

Yep, Requiem and Poison spells are completely useless. Mobs have way too much HP for them to matter at all and SCH can DoT hundreds of times the amount.

I seem to remember there was some talk about adjusting the dmg of both, but like many other things it has been forgotten in time.

PS > And speaking of job adjustments, I wonder if Enspells 2 will ever be fixed. Not holding my breath at all, just curious.

[Kjara]

Personally I'd really enjoy seeing Ready/Reward's range going back to what it was before. I enjoy meleeing as BST, but normally I do so by fighting multiple mobs at a time. Or at least, let us have a range so that when fighting larger foes we can stay behind them while pet tanks, and not side-to-side. It's kind of rediculous that Dragoon wyverns can do that, and they're a kind of pet that always follows the master no matter what.

I don't think the nerf changed the habits of any back-line BST. I still see them around. They still stand back while their pet fights if they feel like it. The only difference is that they're not using Ready nor Reward anymore.

The way I'm seeing it, the change to the range only made Ready/Reward some forgotten abilities like Charm and Tame.

[Yoji_Fujito]

Hello,

Hello everyone,

I'd like to inform you that adjustments will be made to two-handed weapons soon!

I appreciate the feedback you guys are giving and encourage you to keep giving us your thoughts.

I would just like to make a quick clarification that the development team has only begun to talk about the fact that we'd like to make adjustments to two-handed weapons, and the details have yet to be fleshed out. Once we make some progress on this we will be sure to share!

[Urmom]

Dedicated BLU mages, PLD and RDM have Mythic weapons, so they can Triple attack and Quadruple attack this weapon Skill using Mythic after math level 3.

Chant du Cygne Double attack its 12.25 - 50% of the times a BLU mage will be Double attacking this
Chant du Cygne Triple attack its 14.70 - 40% of time a Mythic BLU will be Triple attacking this
Chant du Cygne Quadruple attack its 17.15 - 20% of time mythic BLU can quadruple attack this

50% of the time 40% of the time 20% of the time... something doesn't add up here... don't know exactly what you were using but I'd say the 20% "quad attack" is wrong.

[Stompa]

Hello,



I would just like to make a quick clarification that the development team has only begun to talk about the fact that we'd like to make adjustments to two-handed weapons, and the details have yet to be fleshed out. Once we make some progress on this we will be sure to share!

My Jobmaster Warrior has four Fencer Gifts in the Jobpoints/Gifts progression line.

Warrior's primary weapon is Greataxe, Greataxe is Warrior's highest skill rank, Greataxe is WAR's Oboro JSE weapon, Greataxe is most of WAR's RME weapons etc.

This means that four of my main WAR Gifts (Fencer Bonus) are completely useless to me, they literally never give me any bonuses at all, because I am using Warrior's primary weapon ; the Greataxe.

So, please consider adding a duality to the Jobmaster Gifts, where it says "Fencer bonus" could you please add "Fencer Bonus (if using a 2-handed weapon this Gift will grant an Accuracy bonus instead of Fencer bonus.)"