Job balancing?

[detlef]

Funny thing is your DRG isn't even welcome in Ambuscade anymore.

[Kensagaku]

Funny thing is your DRG isn't even welcome in Ambuscade anymore.

Yeah but that's 'cause you need my RUN to tank so you don't explode. :P That being said, the point is still valid. This new round isn't nice for melee.

[OmnysValefor]

Is it not? I haven't even bothered with it. I need to for capes, but the rewards are just mediocre.

On to the Amnesia discussion--

When you have a spell that can shut down one kind of job, but not another kind of job, you're going to bring the other kind of job. You're going to want to, every time. Here's the thing, even if you're running a 75% resist rate on Amnesia, it halts progress on the fight when it does land. In easy content (for your group), this isn't a problem, you'll burst through it later. In harder content where timers or the threat of death (and thus an eventual wipe/loss) are an issue, you're going to bring the safest option.

There is nothing in this game that punishes mages anything like amnesia punishes melees (and tanks). This might be due to how hard it is to punish the BLMs while still letting the healer do their job.

Barele spells/Carols contribute to the magic evasion against an element vs the enemy's magic accuracy. Vex/Attune does this across the board. Older content (Delve for example) has lower magic accuracy than newer content. Barring against an element is more potent there than it is on say, Straph in Reisenjima.

[detlef]

SE has said in the past that they are against an Amnesia -na spell but the game would benefit so much from it.

[Zeargi]

SE has said in the past that they are against an Amnesia -na spell but the game would benefit so much from it.

Agreed, and to be honest, there needs to be elevated -na spells or Esuna needs to be the spell it should be in every other FF game. Mute, Muddled, Charm, and even Doom need to be able to be cured and reliably.

[OmnysValefor]

I agree Phil.

It isn't the same game as it was in 2008. In 08, mages didn't have such abundant refresh (since they're casting many of the same spells as they were back then), there wasn't Myrkr, and Occult Acumen, a third tier of aspir coupled with all this fc/haste gear, /rdm having convert and refresh). The trade-off back then was that your BLMs couldn't just chain nukes because their MP would not survive. If you brought only mages, you were gonna be ballading and waiting a lot. Melee had the strength of being steady and consistent damage.

Melee start empty and build up, mages start full and empty out. The problem in the balance now is that mages stay full.

[Ketaru]

There is nothing in this game that punishes mages anything like amnesia punishes melees (and tanks). This might be due to how hard it is to punish the BLMs while still letting the healer do their job.

I'd imagine outright magic immunity would do that. But that just ends up being no fun for anybody, since nothing would die in much of the current game design. Mute would do just the same, but then you'd end up relying on alternative healing sources, such as a DNC (which, admittedly, sounds like something we ought to see more of if they felt like balancing content so), or a SMN with a healing avatar already out, or BST using a rarab pet. But then these options all fall prey to the same disadvantages of melee damage dealing.

The other thing about how content is designed is that, when mages are disabled, it's often far worse for the party than when the melee are disabled. If a melee is under Amnesia or even dies, it's often treated as a minor inconvenience that is resolved with the passage of time. When a mage is disabled, it's a huge setback for which, if there is no backup, the battle might even be considered a loss. Same goes for tanks. Imagine if they were tasked with updating the jobs such that we find ourselves one day saying, "Oh crap, the MNK died! This is a disaster! How are we gonna recover from this?!"

[Olor]

Giving melee -DT innately helps "right now", but it's their mindset that has to change.

Some AOE-heavy bosses are fine. Some fights where mages are superior is fine, just like melee being superior in some fights is fine. What we have here is very lopsided.

Giving melee resistance to enfeebles doesn't do much. It still screws things up when they get hit with it. Mages would still be preferable.

yeah you're right on every front here.

[dmuller30]

There just needs to be some sort of balance. Every job should be useful there can be preference but it shouldn't be set in stone. You should be able to take any job with you and be completely fine.

[OmnysValefor]

I don't agree there. Any job works in any fight leads to bland encounters or bland jobs.

The balance just has to quit so crazily favoring mages, and TP feed needs... modernized somehow because anything more than what it takes to make a skillchain is just tp-feed these days.