Vagary Woes - Increasingly More Difficult To Run. Lack Of Incentive.

[Kylos]

This is a story of a Vagary Linkshell which is on the verge of collapse. Back in June 2015, I was tired of seeing no Vagary events, and others players having to pay extortionate amounts of gil to get their clears. My aim was to make a Vagary linkshell which would get players their clears for free, as long as they worked hard and followed direction. The first couple of months was rough, as I scoured the Cerberus server for potential members. It was fun learning the basics, and over the months we became a well-oiled machine which found new ways of beating it.

Somehow the LS attracted some of the best players on the server, mostly GMT and EST players. As Cerberus doesn't have much of an EU population, we had to run later to accommodate for our American friends. In the end, we became so strong we would clear Vagary every Tuesday with 18 players on a server which struggled to reach 500 players outside Japanese primetime. A month ago we were killing the whole thing in less than two hours.

But while we succeeded in getting players their clears, there's other parts of the content we have not. I can honestly say we've been running every single week since June and have never seen Tartarus Platemail drop from Plouton. How can we do Vagary for 10 months and not see one drop from Plouton? I know it's meant to be rare, but seriously? And yes, I am aware there have been many posts pointing to the drop rate on this elusive piece.


While we've never seen it drop from Plouton, we've been successful during Vagary Campaigns. On the first campaign, we saw three Platemails go to regular members through the random drop. We assumed this good fortune would continue, but since then we've only seen two (some campaigns didn't give any), one of those going to an outside player, and the other going to a pearlsack member who didn't really want it.

And while we see many different campaigns, Vagary Campaigns are rare. This is bad news for the linkshell, as it seems the best players only show when campaigns are on. And should we blame them? When you can do all five NMs, pick the random option, and get something terrible like a Rabid Visor? Or an Etched Memory? It's very discouraging when you put in so much work and get nothing worthwhile in return.

Many of our members continued to run with me because I made the content fun and easy to understand. I tried my best to encourage members to practice, and get better with every run. Many players have come and gone, they spent their time in the LS, got everything they needed, helped us for a while, and moved on. And again I don't blame them, because they were waiting months to see a Platemail drop from Plouton, to actually see progress, but the discouraging drop rate and random choice option does nothing but turn them away.

The server has been crippled after many endgame LS left for Asura and Odin, and now we're lucky to see over 300 members at gather time. The last two weeks there's been less than 300 players on the server, and it's clear many of those are doing Ambuscade, an event that can be soloed any time, and is casual and doesn't require much planning or strategy.


Vagary is different. It should be exceptionally rewarding. It is a lot of fun, but it can only be fun for so long til players grow tired of it. I believe I'm the only player who publicly announces a weekly event on Cerberus, and today, after Rancibus screwed us over once again by timing us out at 1% (not exaggerating) when several members needed the clear, I considered breaking the linkshell. My linkshell members reassured me that I do a fantastic job, that the server needs me and my linkshell. Without VagarySpeaking, the server would be completely dead at our time, and no one would get Vagary clears.

I'm not going to beg you. I'm not going to cry. All I can do is offer suggestions, and it would be really cool if someone responded, if anyone from SquareEnix would respond and let me know if there's any plans to tweak Vagary for those who like doing it. Please don't let Vagary die, because it's essential to players who want Empyrean Reforged, and how will they ever reforge their equipment if they can't find anyone who will run it?

So here's my attempt at some suggestions.


- Make Vagary Campaign permanent. At least this way, players have a choice of a gil item/equipment and a random drop, whereas others can try their luck and go for two random choices. This would increase the likelihood of platemails, but not too much that everyone will have one.

- Make a Records Of Eminence objective for Plouton. 50-100 Ploutons gives a key item which can be traded for a Platemail. By doing this it sets a target, and if a linkshell is unlucky for ten months, at least the members who stuck through it are rewarded in the end. Could give other rewards for those who don't want the platemail.

- Increase the drop rate on Plouton. After doing Vagary over ten months, the drop rate is so abysmal I don't believe it exists. It's become a running joke in my linkshell, whenever anyone mentions the platemail, I'll say "Body? What body? Never heard of it". Would it hurt to increase the drop rate even slightly? Not expecting it to drop 100%.

- After so many Ward Key items (all five) turned in, the skulls give an option of an extended reward. How many times? 25 times perhaps? Clear the entirety of Vagary 25 times and get the choice of a Platemail, stacks of gil items, or something new? Either way, it would encourage players to clear Vagary over and over, and the progress would be real and measured.


But this isn't just about getting Platemails, the event has other problems, such as Rancibus, and the spawn conditions on Perfidien/Plouton. While I admire the fact you need some luck in the Rancibus run, it's heartbreaking when members play their hardest and lose out because "we were unlucky that time". Perhaps reduce the amount of pillars after each NM? How it is, if you're unlucky (which happens to us a lot), it's very easy to time out. And this includes an 18 person alliance, we have timed out with 18 players on Rancibus.

As for Perfidien and Plouton, the MB requirements are a little too much for some. While veteran players mastered it, including one member of my linkshell who rarely joins us on Scholar to solo two of the phases, it's becoming increasingly difficult to do them. You either need a SCH, or a SAM, and finding players willing to play these jobs, and know how to do it? Very difficult indeed. Again, the challenge is finding the right players for the spawn conditions, while the NMs themselves ain't too difficult.

I can understand why the event had these difficult conditions in the beginning, as it forced the best players to experiment to figure it out. It took my linkshell several weeks to not only find out what needed to be done ... but to put that in to practice and spawn the NMs. I imagine anyone else trying to lead this would be scratching their heads and giving up after a while. Does it need to be this difficult at this stage? Why can't Vagary be more "casual" player friendly?


Apologies for the long post. I'm a disgruntled leader who does everything in his power to ensure players get their clears and enjoy doing themselves. I like to teach, I like to coach, and it's fulfilling to see them progress and be better players leaving the linkshell then they were when started out. It should be an event which is far more rewarding, and should encourage a full alliance, as far, far too much content is scaled to six players these days, and Vagary is the last event which doesn't punish you for bringing more.

Thanks for reading. Please up vote my post if you agree, because it seems to go a long way in getting suggestions noticed. Thanks to everyone who appreciates the hard work I put in, and congratulations to everyone who ever got a clear with our linkshell VagarySpeaking.

[Stompa]

I did Vagary legs with 14-person alliance. The leader who shouted for the group, for three hours, was a Japanese veteran player, on his super PLD. A lot of the other people were also Japanese master players.

We did two runs, and failed both times. First time we failed, a RDM cast Cure III on the PLD, and the two mobs he was fighting went and one-shotted the RDM. This despite the PLD having hate, and lots of enmity gear.

Second time, similar, but with Erase spell, and a single mob hating on one of the other WHMs.

So both times we failed / kicked-out because of the freaky "somebody was KO" rule, and because the enmity system is very strange imho. Duration of double fail run, including /shouts, was five hours total. So no empy legs for me, and I don't want to try again because it was a horrible experience.

[zataz]

I did Vagary legs with 14-person alliance. The leader who shouted for the group, for three hours, was a Japanese veteran player, on his super PLD. A lot of the other people were also Japanese master players.

We did two runs, and failed both times. First time we failed, a RDM cast Cure III on the PLD, and the two mobs he was fighting went and one-shotted the RDM. This despite the PLD having hate, and lots of enmity gear.

Second time, similar, but with Erase spell, and a single mob hating on one of the other WHMs.

So both times we failed / kicked-out because of the freaky "somebody was KO" rule, and because the enmity system is very strange imho. Duration of double fail run, including /shouts, was five hours total. So no empy legs for me, and I don't want to try again because it was a horrible experience.

the first action on a mob doesn't give hate it just aggros it u have to hit it with a ability 2Xto get hate =P
btw what is a super pld =P
also if we ever end up on the same server hit me up my link clears them with 6 man and getting u the win would not be a issue =P
if u wanna take a trip for a few here and get your win that is fine too just give me some heads up so i can get my bros on the same page =P

[Stompa]

the first action on a mob doesn't give hate it just aggros it u have to hit it with a ability 2Xto get hate =P
btw what is a super pld =P
also if we ever end up on the same server hit me up my link clears them with 6 man and getting u the win would not be a issue =P
if u wanna take a trip for a few here and get your win that is fine too just give me some heads up so i can get my bros on the same page =P

A super Pld, in the case of this Japanese gentleman, would be a Jobmaster with completed all RME swords and shields. His main has been PLD since forever and he is very good at it.

Enmity is considered broken by many players, there are lots of threads about this subject. In certain events enmity seems to behave randomly at times, even assuming the new normal is not broken, there are clearly errors occurring.

My point was not really about enmity, but about the "one death = game over" rule which is ridiculous. Enmity just makes this rule even more risky.

Thankyou for your kind offer of assisting me. I have however tossed my lvl 109 empyrean sets now. My enthusiasm for further hoop-jumping and mousewheel-running is at null point zero. To be quite honest, I don't like the built-in obsolescence of ilvl gear.

I will most likely be playing my locked-at-75 second-character in the future, so that mobs/NMs/events in old areas Vana'diel are still a fun and interesting challenge, and I can use my lvl 75 gear knowing it won't be made obsolete every few weeks.

[zataz]

A super Pld, in the case of this Japanese gentleman, would be a Jobmaster with completed all RME swords and shields. His main has been PLD since forever and he is very good at it.

Enmity is considered broken by many players, there are lots of threads about this subject. In certain events enmity seems to behave randomly at times, even assuming the new normal is not broken, there are clearly errors occurring.

My point was not really about enmity, but about the "one death = game over" rule which is ridiculous. Enmity just makes this rule even more risky

Thankyou for your kind offer of assisting me. I have however tossed my lvl 109 empyrean sets now. My enthusiasm for further hoop-jumping and mousewheel-running is at null point zero. To be quite honest, I don't like the built-in obsolescence of ilvl gear.

I will most likely be playing my locked-at-75 second-character in the future, so that mobs/NMs/events in old areas Vana'diel are still a fun and interesting challenge, and I can use my lvl 75 gear knowing it won't be made obsolete every few weeks.

well then im a super pld =P also if u change your mind at some point let me know !

[Stompa]

well then im a super pld =P also if u change your mind at some point let me know !

You are a very kind person, thankyou. ^^

[OmnysValefor]

A super Pld, in the case of this Japanese gentleman, would be a Jobmaster with completed all RME swords and shields. His main has been PLD since forever and he is very good at it.

Enmity is considered broken by many players, there are lots of threads about this subject. In certain events enmity seems to behave randomly at times, even assuming the new normal is not broken, there are clearly errors occurring.

In Vagary and Incursion, there is a mechanic called party-hate. Once agro'd, everyone is on the hate list, as if they had performed some action against the monster themselves. This was SE's answer to the fact that a single PLD could hold half of a delve, bosses included, by himself (when Delve first hit).

What this "Super PLD" was trying to do was 'supertank', which works in most areas. If you only agro the mobs but perform no action against them, they'll hit you forever no matter how much you are healed. In many cases, even if you die, the mobs go back to an idle state, ready to agro the next person that naturally agros them.

What he should have done is agro the mobs, pop sentinel, rampart, warcry and begin healing himself while spreading out Flash and Provoke between things when they were ready to be used again.

[Kylos]

I'm not surprised Stompa, Vagary is still difficult to master for many, and I had to run the event for several months before I could understand it. Hate is wonky, and the KO rule on Perfidien and Plouton is harsh. We lost a few pops in the autumn time because of that rule.

Last night was the first time a few of the players in our alliance had done the content. We tried our absolute hardest from the first second of the Rancibus run to get through it. because we had 16 players and we could still lose because of "bad luck on pillars". Which we did, we had the worst luck after Brimboil, we had 22 minutes left, but we had to do every single pillar and Rancibus spawned at the end with 1 minute 30 seconds to go. I couldn't find us a Scholar for the run, otherwise it would have died in that time. Our PLDs had to improvise and set up a skillchain, and our six blms + smn + cor (myself) threw everything at it. But in the end we were timed out at 1%. I wouldn't be surprised if those first-time players never want to do Vagary again after that experience.

On the other side, two times (in 10 months) we've managed to pop Rancibus after three pillars and cleared the zone with over 30 minutes left. The difference between bad luck and extreme good luck is over 30 minutes in that zone. As for Perf/Plouton, we've had Plouton warp out because a SMN healed it too much with Astral Conduit. It's not just about keeping everyone alive, you can't heal them too much either. And if you screw up at any stage you have to start over. Many find it difficult to find this information, and if you're running with Japanese players, it's even harder because of the language barrier.

[Olor]

This event really shouldn't be locking players out of their AF3.

And Kylos, I just want to say thank you. You're the kind of LS leader that makes this game worth playing - folks like you do so much for the community - and I hope that the devs listen and do something to make this event more worth running for you.

[Kylos]

I hope so Olor. It's nice to get people their clears, even if it's only once a week. I've always been that way, I've spent the majority of my 11+ year FFXI life as a leader, whether it was a social LS, Dynamis LS, or in recent times my Vagary LS .. it's nice to help others even if I don't know them.