Dark Knight and the Dev Team

[Kagato]

A crit WS only starts to fix DRKs problems. They are also the only melee job that doesn't have JA or trait to enhance WS frequency and DoT. Jumps,Hasso,STP,DA,TA,DW,MA,Counter,Retaliation,SATA,Pets,Zanshin are all spread across melee jobs to help their output and to help their WS frequency. Before the haste cap a top DRK could hit 86% during LR which gave it a slight edge for 30 seconds every 4:10 but now that thats gone DRK it left swinging the slowest weapons and using the worst WSs. Torclever might be a decent WS but compare it to any other Emp and its down right crappy and a lot of that has to do with the jobs that can use it. Anyone that says DRK is fine inside or out of abyssea is just trying to cockblock any attempt to get it fixed.

Oh, you mean people like this guy:

You guys do know that from a Melee damage standpoint DRK is one of the top DD in and outside of abyssea?

the only difference in damage between us and a war is WAR has better weaponskills (not empy) and they ONLY win inside abyssea with RR taking affect..

we dont need fukin berserk to cap PDIF.. and giving us super last resort would make us so overpowered....

If you want to keep up in abyssea on DRK you need to get one of the empy weaponskills.. just like to be a good WAR you need Ukko's and a good sam has Fudo.......... the WoE version even..

Stop askign for some crit weaponskill to be handed to you and go work and get a good weaponskill yourself..

By saying we're one of the top DD in/out of abyssea, that our Last Resort is just fine, and that we need an Empy Weaponskill to keep up (lolQuietus. At least Torcleaver is trying) is stuck in some whacked out world of delusion. And you know what's sad? There are people who actually believe this.

[Zeroth]

I also like the fact that anything given to DRK is then nerfed later on down the road.

Souleater, Drain, and now Absorb TP have all been nerfed in some way.

[Malamasala]

Well, I also think they keep WAR overpowered by choice. Mainly because everyone thinks that unless it is the best DD, it is just a subjob. There are no other options, just black or white.

I also didn't understand why they kept so many level 70 avatar pacts out of the crit WS update. Ifrit's BP for example is useless on everything in the game except open mouth goldfishes. SE seems to always just update some jobs and leave others to rot.

Of course, Summoner gets a lot of updates so you can't say they are forgotten, they are simply misunderstood since almost all updates add the wrong things. (5 bucks on next update not having any Summoner armors. At most it will be a BLM/WHM/SMN armor with +7 summoning skill and the rest MAB and cure potency)

[Olor]

I think both DRK and PLD really need some love. They are not really "needed" for anything these days. And I agree - if a player has a skill which increases their attack at the expense of damaging themselves - they should have top tier damage after using that skill.

[Frost]

Idk, I like Dark the way it is. In Abyssea, if you want a Crit Hit WS, just use swords, axes or even g.axes(for Cleaving). You don't ALWAYS have to use a scythe or g.sword. Drk's get access to pretty much everything a War gets, and then some, so comapring Darks to War is kinda moot.

Dark is a hybrid class, it has a lot of uses other than "MONGO SMAAAAASH!". 99% of the Darks out there REALLY want to be playing Warrior, because there's absolutely no difference between how 99% of Darks play Dark and How a War plays War, except for aesthetics.

That's not to say there's NO differences between them. Just that people rarely use the stuff that separates Drk form War. I rarely if ever see Drks cast anything besides maybe Ab-TP. Most of them only see the job abilities and seem to ignore they got an MP pool. Do you know what Ab-Agi does for a group? It drops the mob's agility, aiding in the overall crit-rate of the entire group. Ab-Acc, is like another Blind that stacks in addition to Blind, Ab-Dex drops that accuracy even further (not so noticeably though). And dare I remind you, did you know Dark can actually sleep stuff? Never seen that cross a Darks' mind when an add is sitting there whacking on someone (Or aggro something and choose to die instead of sleep it).

SE keeps trying to corral Darks into casting more, and I wish they would, but I will admit, Dark does have a few "Head Scratchers"... Elemental Magic is kinda too low to be Useful. Why would I cast Aero III when I can hit a mob 3x in the same amount of time, do 5x as much and be 3/5's of the way to a weaponskill? If the elemental spells were incorporated/combined with the Ab-Spells in some way, like say instead of having Ab-Dex and Thunder, instead give Ab-Dex a thunder property that absorbs dexterity and deals thunder damage. It would be a lot less insulting than an elemental spell thats out damaged by something a healer could toss out while goofing off.

And if SE really wants Darks to be more valuable to parties, AND cast more, give us an ability that allows Darks to share their absorb spells with a party member(s). How nice would it be to have a Dark cast Aspir, or Drain and have it shared with a tank? Like a "Trick Attack" for magic. Just put a party member between you and a monster, cast Ab-Acc, you get accuracy and so does your buddy. Or just an Aura ability: you Absorb Strength, and anyone within x yalms gets the Str buff too.

[Kagato]

Idk, I like Dark the way it is. In Abyssea, if you want a Crit Hit WS, just use swords, axes or even g.axes(for Cleaving). You don't ALWAYS have to use a scythe or g.sword. Drk's get access to pretty much everything a War gets, and then some, so comapring Darks to War is kinda moot.

Dark is a hybrid class, it has a lot of uses other than "MONGO SMAAAAASH!". 99% of the Darks out there REALLY want to be playing Warrior, because there's absolutely no difference between how 99% of Darks play Dark and How a War plays War, except for aesthetics.

That's not to say there's NO differences between them. Just that people rarely use the stuff that separates Drk form War. I rarely if ever see Drks cast anything besides maybe Ab-TP. Most of them only see the job abilities and seem to ignore they got an MP pool. Do you know what Ab-Agi does for a group? It drops the mob's agility, aiding in the overall crit-rate of the entire group. Ab-Acc, is like another Blind that stacks in addition to Blind, Ab-Dex drops that accuracy even further (not so noticeably though). And dare I remind you, did you know Dark can actually sleep stuff? Never seen that cross a Darks' mind when an add is sitting there whacking on someone (Or aggro something and choose to die instead of sleep it).

SE keeps trying to corral Darks into casting more, and I wish they would, but I will admit, Dark does have a few "Head Scratchers"... Elemental Magic is kinda too low to be Useful. Why would I cast Aero III when I can hit a mob 3x in the same amount of time, do 5x as much and be 3/5's of the way to a weaponskill? If the elemental spells were incorporated/combined with the Ab-Spells in some way, like say instead of having Ab-Dex and Thunder, instead give Ab-Dex a thunder property that absorbs dexterity and deals thunder damage. It would be a lot less insulting than an elemental spell thats out damaged by something a healer could toss out while goofing off.

And if SE really wants Darks to be more valuable to parties, AND cast more, give us an ability that allows Darks to share their absorb spells with a party member(s). How nice would it be to have a Dark cast Aspir, or Drain and have it shared with a tank? Like a "Trick Attack" for magic. Just put a party member between you and a monster, cast Ab-Acc, you get accuracy and so does your buddy. Or just an Aura ability: you Absorb Strength, and anyone within x yalms gets the Str buff too.

I don't like to be mean, but I have to. This entire post is wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. Let's break it down:

1) You got DRK and WAR swapped. It is WAR who has more weapon versatility than DRK, and uses those weapons better too. That is why WAR is always wanted over a DRK for red procs.

2) lolMongo Smash. Did you know that the only way to do such a thing is to use Souleater and Last Resort together? Once we do that, we probably run even with WARs and MNKs as far as DoT, only we're actually dying while doing it and they're not.

3) DRKs don't want to be WARs. Actually, no SMART DRK wants to be another WAR. What good DRKs want is something that makes them stand out and have something that is actually needed and better than another job. Did you know BLMs have the same Dark Magic skill as us? Thats right. We can't even beat BLMs in a magic category that we're supposed to specialize in.

3) Casting during a battle greatly reduces our DPS and overall DoT. If we're not supposed to physically engage an enemy, such as against NMs in Abyssea or other such events, guess what we do? Stun. Sadly, so can other jobs, making us not as valuable. Sure, we can also cast absorb spells to weaken the NM, but Absorb decay is so high on NMs that it wears off quickly even if we have capped Dark Magic, fully merited, and have a Dark Magic set. So sure, we can cast Absorb-ACC. It'll give any ordinary big NM...oh...10 seconds of "blind." And did you know our ability to sleep things is usually overshadowed by other mages in the group? both BLMs and RDMs do it better than us. We only have to use it if we're the only ones that can, and seeing as how our actual enfeebles list is small, chances are a DRK who didn't lvl another mage job with more enfeeble spells won't have a high enough skill to land Sleep in the first place.

4) Our Elemental Magic skill isn't too low. We have the 2nd highest in the game. It's the spells themselves that are too low. We only have as high as tier III.

[Rayik]

Idk, I like Dark the way it is. In Abyssea, if you want a Crit Hit WS, just use swords, axes or even g.axes(for Cleaving). You don't ALWAYS have to use a scythe or g.sword. Drk's get access to pretty much everything a War gets, and then some, so comapring Darks to War is kinda moot.

Dark is a hybrid class, it has a lot of uses other than "MONGO SMAAAAASH!". 99% of the Darks out there REALLY want to be playing Warrior, because there's absolutely no difference between how 99% of Darks play Dark and How a War plays War, except for aesthetics.

That's not to say there's NO differences between them. Just that people rarely use the stuff that separates Drk form War. I rarely if ever see Drks cast anything besides maybe Ab-TP. Most of them only see the job abilities and seem to ignore they got an MP pool. Do you know what Ab-Agi does for a group? It drops the mob's agility, aiding in the overall crit-rate of the entire group. Ab-Acc, is like another Blind that stacks in addition to Blind, Ab-Dex drops that accuracy even further (not so noticeably though). And dare I remind you, did you know Dark can actually sleep stuff? Never seen that cross a Darks' mind when an add is sitting there whacking on someone (Or aggro something and choose to die instead of sleep it).

SE keeps trying to corral Darks into casting more, and I wish they would, but I will admit, Dark does have a few "Head Scratchers"... Elemental Magic is kinda too low to be Useful. Why would I cast Aero III when I can hit a mob 3x in the same amount of time, do 5x as much and be 3/5's of the way to a weaponskill? If the elemental spells were incorporated/combined with the Ab-Spells in some way, like say instead of having Ab-Dex and Thunder, instead give Ab-Dex a thunder property that absorbs dexterity and deals thunder damage. It would be a lot less insulting than an elemental spell thats out damaged by something a healer could toss out while goofing off.

And if SE really wants Darks to be more valuable to parties, AND cast more, give us an ability that allows Darks to share their absorb spells with a party member(s). How nice would it be to have a Dark cast Aspir, or Drain and have it shared with a tank? Like a "Trick Attack" for magic. Just put a party member between you and a monster, cast Ab-Acc, you get accuracy and so does your buddy. Or just an Aura ability: you Absorb Strength, and anyone within x yalms gets the Str buff too.

You don't have DRK levelled, do you... Know how I know?

Elemental Magic is kinda too low to be Useful.

DRK Elemental Magic rating is B+, it's higher than a freakin' RDM, and equal to a SCH using Dark Arts. The skill is fine, we just have no native MAB do do anything with it. So our Fire III lands just fine, it's just does less damage than a dagger swing, and takes 10x as long.

If SE wants us to cast more spells, give us a damned reason to cast them! Occult Accumen was a start, but why on earth am I going to spend the time to cast a spell, possibly get interrupted, do crappy damage, and get back 2 or 3 tp, when I could've swung my scythe/GS, done MORE damage, NOT get interrupted, and gotten back around 19-ish tp?

It's simple. Have Occult Accumen give us tp comparable to a weapon swing. Make the casting time comparable to weapon delay, and give us the tp associated with it. I'll happily cast spells all day if I can get that tp that my weapon would get.

[Frost]

You don't have DRK levelled, do you... Know how I know?

DRK Elemental Magic rating is B+, it's higher than a freakin' RDM, and equal to a SCH using Dark Arts. The skill is fine, we just have no native MAB do do anything with it. So our Fire III lands just fine, it's just does less damage than a dagger swing, and takes 10x as long.

If SE wants us to cast more spells, give us a damned reason to cast them! Occult Accumen was a start, but why on earth am I going to spend the time to cast a spell, possibly get interrupted, do crappy damage, and get back 2 or 3 tp, when I could've swung my scythe/GS, done MORE damage, NOT get interrupted, and gotten back around 19-ish tp?

It's simple. Have Occult Accumen give us tp comparable to a weapon swing. Make the casting time comparable to weapon delay, and give us the tp associated with it. I'll happily cast spells all day if I can get that tp that my weapon would get.

I do have Dark leveled. It's actually one of my favorite jobs to be honest.

What i meant by "Too low" wasn't our skill level, but the tier of spell. And you pretty much outlined the reasons why I said it. My argument was horribly worded.

[Urteil]

Idk, I like Dark the way it is. In Abyssea, if you want a Crit Hit WS, just use swords, axes or even g.axes(for Cleaving). You don't ALWAYS have to use a scythe or g.sword. Drk's get access to pretty much everything a War gets, and then some, so comapring Darks to War is kinda moot.

Dark is a hybrid class, it has a lot of uses other than "MONGO SMAAAAASH!". 99% of the Darks out there REALLY want to be playing Warrior, because there's absolutely no difference between how 99% of Darks play Dark and How a War plays War, except for aesthetics.

That's not to say there's NO differences between them. Just that people rarely use the stuff that separates Drk form War. I rarely if ever see Drks cast anything besides maybe Ab-TP. Most of them only see the job abilities and seem to ignore they got an MP pool. Do you know what Ab-Agi does for a group? It drops the mob's agility, aiding in the overall crit-rate of the entire group. Ab-Acc, is like another Blind that stacks in addition to Blind, Ab-Dex drops that accuracy even further (not so noticeably though). And dare I remind you, did you know Dark can actually sleep stuff? Never seen that cross a Darks' mind when an add is sitting there whacking on someone (Or aggro something and choose to die instead of sleep it).

SE keeps trying to corral Darks into casting more, and I wish they would, but I will admit, Dark does have a few "Head Scratchers"... Elemental Magic is kinda too low to be Useful. Why would I cast Aero III when I can hit a mob 3x in the same amount of time, do 5x as much and be 3/5's of the way to a weaponskill? If the elemental spells were incorporated/combined with the Ab-Spells in some way, like say instead of having Ab-Dex and Thunder, instead give Ab-Dex a thunder property that absorbs dexterity and deals thunder damage. It would be a lot less insulting than an elemental spell thats out damaged by something a healer could toss out while goofing off.

And if SE really wants Darks to be more valuable to parties, AND cast more, give us an ability that allows Darks to share their absorb spells with a party member(s). How nice would it be to have a Dark cast Aspir, or Drain and have it shared with a tank? Like a "Trick Attack" for magic. Just put a party member between you and a monster, cast Ab-Acc, you get accuracy and so does your buddy. Or just an Aura ability: you Absorb Strength, and anyone within x yalms gets the Str buff too.

There's good and bad here.

I get a very gray feeling.

[Cruentus]

They don't need to give DRK a critical hit WS they just need to give DRK a 30 second JA that causes the first hit of the next WS to be a critical hit.

Use with Spinning Slash or Torcleaver. DRK is fixed.

That would be better as a job trait.

Why don't we leave abyssea out of this? Abyssea isn't going to be the end all of FFXI, and if it is, please tell me now so I can finally quit. DRK has no immediate issues, the problem is that other jobs received major updates that currently shine in Abyssea. While they are still great outside of Aby, DRK can still meet and often beat other jobs if you're actually good at it. DRK doesn't need a super crit WS for spike damage. Honestly, I understand Quietus isn't something that met peoples' expectations, and I'm a bit disappointed as well. Why would you implement MND (DRK's WORST basic stat) into ANY weapon skill used by this particular job? In fact why would you implement MND into ANY weapon skill for ANY job? That's just a terrible way of saying "F YOU" to people who enjoy the job. Well that didn't stop us from using Guillotine all these years. I actually like using Quietus... in Campaign Battles... and other irrelevant crap... Spike damage isn't DRK's best feature any more, but DPS isn't out of the question yet. Perhaps with extended Last Resort duration it can be the strongest DD as I envision it.

Um, because balance has to be maintained throughout the game? Come on, use your head, please. How would you like it if people demanded "Warrior or get the hell out" of you, and your melee jobs amounted to Dark Knight and maybe White Mage? And this is concerning most of the good stuff that's out right now.

What's the commonality of all the jobs you just listed.

Oh that's right they are all 1H DDs.

2H DDs get 3 ATT for every 4 STR and 3 ACC for every 4 DEX. So now you want them to be more damaging than 1H jobs *and* have the enhanced survivability that 1H jobs have as well?


Tell you what, you can have enhanced survivability if 1H jobs can have the same 4:3 ATT/ACC calculation 2H jobs get.

You clearly have no idea how much more lethal a weapon is, when you compare wielding it with one hand to wielding it with two hands. Two-handed weapons should beat out one-handed weapons every time.

DRK has plenty of useful magic. You don't use it all the time, but there are times when it comes in handy. Endark was one of the things meant to rectify that, and I think it helps. DRK doesn't need more martial prowess, they already have it. The only reason DRK seems underwhelming right now is because of the current metagame of abyssea.

I personally find this post hilarious. We have the first three tiers of single-target elemental magic, which does crap for damage coming from a job that has no Magic Attack Bonus, and Occult Acumen gives us maybe a fifth of the TP we'd get for swinging a weapon in the same amount of time, plus the weapon would do more damage. Then there's our enfeebling magic, which is just Bind (one of the most useless spells in the game), Poison II (Red Mages do it better), and Sleep II (see Poison II). Our Absorb spells decay over time and take too long to cast, Dread Spikes isn't even worth a darn, and Endark overwrites additional effects on your weapon, like the Twilight scythe's Death. You could argue that we have Stun, but so do Black Mages, and they have equal skill in dark magic to us.

I repeat, there must be balance. Right now, there most certainly is not balance, considering Dark Knights are a joke in Abyssea.

Get torcleaver, sub thf. Problem solved.

Um, not at all. We need to NOT rely on a support job for anything, thanks. People need to learn that a support job's just there to support, and not, "THIS OR YOU AREN'T WORTH CRAP!!"

As it stands, it's DRK/SAM, or we aren't worth crap. This must change by making Dark Knights better, and there are several parts of the job that need to be fixed.

The next thing we know, you'll be suggesting that we use a dagger 90% of the time.

Thats hardly a solution blowfin... I can't think of any other job whose main weapon is worse than a secondary weapon


edit... but i suppose GA could work.. if they gave drk an A- rating in great axe

then it would be problem solve >_>

Again, not really. We have an A+ with a scythe. We need to be using that. Or would you expect a Paladin to be using a staff 90% of the time, hm?

Sorry, there was a typo in my post which read GA rather than GS. Even still, the original post did say that there was a 7 skill level difference between GS and Scythe, not GA and Scythe.

Just to note, isnt Rampage spam the way to go for good numbers for DRK in Abyss? At least for EXP. At least until you can get hold of the Empy GS. Why is swinging a 2H weapon that important that people overlook other options.

Even Torcleaver's a joke compared to every other Empyrean Weapon Skill, sans Quietus, and that's just sad for us Dark Knights. You need to do a lot more research into this matter before you even post again. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about.