Dark Knight and the Dev Team

[RaenRyong]

Melee BRD might be able to outDD DRK. I haven't done the math on it, but looking at it, it seems likely... inside Abyssea of course.

[Quetzacoatl]

Melee BRD might be able to outDD DRK. I haven't done the math on it, but looking at it, it seems likely... inside Abyssea of course.

BlueGartr tested that a long time ago I thought. But yeah, if a BARD can out-damage a Dark Knight, something is seriously wrong.

[Frost]

Melee BRD might be able to outDD DRK. I haven't done the math on it, but looking at it, it seems likely... inside Abyssea of course.

I assume you're just trolling, but I'll bite...
If a melee bard and Drk were in the same party, and both receiving buffs, there's no way a melee Brd could out-damage a Drk. If only for the fact a Drk gets access to every offensive ability that bard has, save for requiem, while having access to generally better gear.

[RaenRyong]

I assume you're just trolling, but I'll bite...
If a melee bard and Drk were in the same party, and both receiving buffs, there's no way a melee Brd could out-damage a Drk. If only for the fact a Drk gets access to every offensive ability that bard has, save for requiem, while having access to generally better gear.

I am trolling in a way, in that I'm posting that to gain a reaction. The reaction I want is the initial disbelief and then when you realise that what I just said isn't that far from the truth, the next reaction I want is the "... wtf? Fix DRK".

We can either assume nonempyrean for both, or give them both empyreans (remembering BRD has full access to ToM daggers). Both cap haste, DRK can 5hit if Scythe, 6hit if Gswrd. Guillotine is 3.875 fTP and Evisceration is 6 fTP with critical potential. Assuming a base damage of ~200 for Scythe and ~120 for Dagger, 775 vs 720 relative units of damage, before criticals - so obviously when criticals are taken into account, Evisceration will absolutely rape Guillotine (not to mention I've assumed same WSC for both, when Razed Ruins atma (which both should use) will greatly favour Evisceration etc).

So DRK has capped Haste, BRD has capped Haste and some DW reduction on what are already extremely high DoT daggers. If we assume Kila +2 x2, 43dmg/190delay => 86dmg/304delay(after DW), giving a "DPS" of ~17 (ignoring the STR/atk/DEX/acc on the daggers). DRK using Woeborn (131dmg/528delay) has a "DPS" of 14.9. This is unfair, you cry! I should give DRK its top magian too. This is true, but you'll soon come to the depressing conclusion that you need a perfect magian with perfect gear to keep up with a rather mundane melee bard (albeit one with empyrean daggers).

I haven't factored Last Resort or Hasso, both of which should push DRK over BRD. In fact, most of this math is highly approximate and should not be taken beyond face value, and I haven't extended it to play with Torcleaver. What I just want to show is that DRK is not much better than a melee BRD inside Abyssea - if you performed these calculations with almost any other melee, BRD would be absolutely destroyed even at the initial premise.

[Gradd]

Calling Raen a troll your just making yourself look like a retard. x:

Other than Kirschy he has to be one of the most knowledgeable DRKs out there.

Even Kirschy says DRK is worthless and when she is saying that much, you know something is wrong.

[Frost]

Calling Raen a troll your just making yourself look like a retard. x:

Other than Kirschy he has to be one of the most knowledgeable DRKs out there.

Even Kirschy says DRK is worthless and when she is saying that much, you know something is wrong.

I said that post was a toll post just due to the absurdity of the premise, not that Raen is a troll.

I like Raen's posts, and usually agree with what they have to say, and even in the case that I don't agree with what they say, I respect their opinion, because unlike a seemingly large vocal group of people coagulating here on the forum that seem to be autistic or something, Raen seems to be able to formulate thoughts properly, and convey them in a meaningful, generally constructive, way.

Idk what I am doing different, that makes my Dark preform acceptably. I've given clues, and I HAVE seen other darks struggle, but it's generally due to them not adopting new ideas and game-play elements. I've been trying to be nice about it, but maybe that's not getting the point across.

[Urteil]

I like how the entire purpose of this thread was to get it attention in the main general forums because SE ignores us.

And now its back here.

I'm seriously considering spamming it into the main thread, until I get an answer besides it being moved.

[Frost]

OK now do all that and use Swords and Axes instead of G.Sword &/or Scythe.

I understand that Drks use Scythe/G.sword, but you don't have to.

Why was it so easy for everyone to use polearm on War and Sam on birds back in the day, and yet it's like pulling teeth to get a Dark to adapt nowadays?

Take Abyssea out of the equation, and you get your scythe/g.sword. Put it back in and you can do fine using crit WS that are available ot you.

[Rezeak]

I really don't think BRD can keep up with DRK.

It's a bit like Melee WHM which i mess about with sure it has a Crit WS and sure it can cap haste and all that but it just ends up trying to cap out attack and wasting alot of the time buffing it self.

As for the /THF thing honestly u can say it only has the WS but ur DoT isn't that much different + ur WS rate is like minus one hit which agian ism't that bad for a 7 hit weapon(not sure if ya even lose a hit). Really DRK/THF i'm sure beats /SAM if you in the sitiutation were you can land sneak attack WS 80-90% of the time. Ps u can WS in between the Sneak attack recast :O

As for survivablity most of the nasty stuff is AoE third eye isn't gonna help here and if you have hate long enough to die from the melee then all the DDs with u are slacking and u'd prolly be top DD /NIN anyway.

[RaenRyong]

As for the /THF thing honestly u can say it only has the WS but ur DoT isn't that much different + ur WS rate is like minus one hit which agian ism't that bad for a 7 hit weapon(not sure if ya even lose a hit). Really DRK/THF i'm sure beats /SAM if you in the sitiutation were you can land sneak attack WS 80-90% of the time. Ps u can WS in between the Sneak attack recast :O

if you lose 1 "tier" of x-hit, that's WS frequency -20% (6hit => 7hit) or -25% (5hit => 6hit).

Hasso is some minor STR boost (damage+<1%), acc+10 (if used, 5%+ damage increase, if not then meh) and Haste+10% (15%+~ damage increase). Meditate is some minor damage increase on the order of ~3% depending on how much you hold TP. Zanshin is minor but there. AND it gives you defenses.

/sam absolutely rapes /thf.

OK now do all that and use Swords and Axes instead of G.Sword &/or Scythe.

I understand that Drks use Scythe/G.sword, but you don't have to.

Why was it so easy for everyone to use polearm on War and Sam on birds back in the day, and yet it's like pulling teeth to get a Dark to adapt nowadays?

Take Abyssea out of the equation, and you get your scythe/g.sword. Put it back in and you can do fine using crit WS that are available ot you.

Because our weapon lineups for both of these suck. Can't magian either of them.