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  1. #51
    Player OmnysValefor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by machini View Post
    Of course it's awful if you're one of those people who will only use the absolute laziest strategies for everything.
    In detlef's defense: He's right. That's what people want is something that can be efficiently and reliably taken down. Swapping weaknesses screws up the order of things and breaks a good chain for no good reason. It's why crabs are much more popular than bats--because their debuffs hurt the performance of the party (acc-down mainly, as most melee are in that range).

    I said it earlier in the thread. People will sometimes start laying out four-ws SC's and I don't even want to bother.

    Give us a boss/event that had mechanics and dropped multiple JP (like 10 or more)? I'd be down for that. But grinding away, I want to know that we can keep kill speed consistent. Lazy has nothing to do with it.
    (1)
    Last edited by OmnysValefor; 02-20-2016 at 08:41 AM.

  2. #52
    Player detlef's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    1,640
    Character
    Philemon
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by machini View Post
    Seriously, what is hard about it? Other than the fact you can do neat stuff like have RDM in demand, since it can do slashing and magic, or WAR since they can do blunt, slashing, and piercing, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.
    I guess I have many concerns.

    Are you going to make it so you can kill it fast enough to maintain an XP or CP chain? If killing it takes 3-4 times as long as a regular XP mob then it sounds like you won't be maintaining your chain.

    If you have to damage it multiple ways does that mean you're going to have to switch your buffs on the fly? That sounds like a headache.

    As I mentioned, I'm not certain whether you can earn more than 65,535 CP in one kill. So if that is the cap then how does this compare to something that you can kill 4x per minute?

    I don't think people want to pay that much attention for an hour straight or longer. There's a big difference between the amount of focus it takes to fight an NM versus farming some crabs or Reisenjima mobs.

    I agree with you that there's room for something in the game that gives big chunks of CP or JP as an alternatives to CP PTs. But any solution is probably going to be hurt by the all powerful chain.
    (2)

  3. #53
    Player Hoshi's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurstian
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    456
    Character
    Hoshiku
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    RNG Lv 99
    Pretty sure that's an actual cap, not a display cap.
    (0)

  4. #54
    Player OmnysValefor's Avatar
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    Oct 2012
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    65535 might seem odd to you but it's based in computing:
    65536 (number) - Wikipedia

    2^16 = 65,536

    It stops at 65,535 to account for 0.

    Essentially, it's the highest number that can be returned for that value because of the chosen field type.

    In Square's defense, this was decided for a game where 200 XP was a lot.
    (0)
    Last edited by OmnysValefor; 02-22-2016 at 03:50 AM.

  5. #55
    Player machini's Avatar
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    Dec 2013
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    338
    Character
    Ivlilla
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    Huh. I was unaware there was an actual cap for that. I figured they would have used more than two bytes for it, given damage can go up to 99,999 for display, at least. I wonder if the remaining bits of that number are used to contain whether it's a job point or merit point, and how many you have. There is a cap on job points in pool after all. 16 bits for amount and 10 bits for how many you have (job point bank caps at 500?), and a flag for job point/merit point would only be 27 bits, though. I guess the remaining 5 bits could specify which player to display it for, or be padding or something, assuming that's how it works. Of course, I have no idea exactly how XI packages its data.

    And now I will be banned for having a cursory knowledge of networking and being able to do powers of two. yay, exponents.
    (0)

  6. #56
    Player machini's Avatar
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    Dec 2013
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    Character
    Ivlilla
    World
    Asura
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    DNC Lv 99
    Oh wait that's 17 bits. Hurr
    (0)

  7. #57
    Player Ketaru's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
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    215
    Character
    Ketaru
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by detlef View Post
    Your hypothetical monster sounds awful to fight and would just be ignored. Does anybody actually enjoy Temperance fights?

    Also, is the 65536 CP/mob an actual cap or a display thing? Because if it's a real cap then there's no way anybody would pick your mob over existing mobs.

    Maybe it IS rocket surgery.
    If such a mob existed that gave a significant amount of CP for defeating it, I'm sure there would be more of an interest in it. The problem is that, for the entire of history of this game, enemies never rewarded players in a way that corresponded to their actual difficulty. Many of the NMs today are significantly more difficult to beat than Apex crabs. But I don't see them giving us one JP per kill.
    (1)
    "NeED★RdM? PLeaSe sENd★teLL!"

  8. #58
    Player detlef's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    1,640
    Character
    Philemon
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Ketaru View Post
    If such a mob existed that gave a significant amount of CP for defeating it, I'm sure there would be more of an interest in it. The problem is that, for the entire of history of this game, enemies never rewarded players in a way that corresponded to their actual difficulty. Many of the NMs today are significantly more difficult to beat than Apex crabs. But I don't see them giving us one JP per kill.
    Right, but I already gave a few reasons why such a mob probably couldn't give that significant amount of CP and why it still might not be competitive with existing options. It'd have to give multiple JP on kill and still have to be a very quick and straightforward fight for it to be an option.

    Really, I think the only way to get people to fight such a mob would be to give it some kind of additional incentive beyond CP such as attractive drops or a copper voucher every kill or something.
    (1)

  9. #59
    Player OmnysValefor's Avatar
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    Oct 2012
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    A chunk of Bayld per kill along with a reliably cp rate.

    Still, swapping weakness leaves many melee out in the cold for the simple fact that many jobs are only proficient in one weapon, and while jse weapons are amazing for people that need acc: What are you supposed to do when the melee lose 50+ acc, more considering skill, swapping to a new type?
    (0)
    Last edited by OmnysValefor; 02-23-2016 at 06:23 AM.

  10. #60
    Player machini's Avatar
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    Dec 2013
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    338
    Character
    Ivlilla
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by OmnysValefor View Post
    A chunk of Bayld per kill along with a reliably cp rate.

    Still, swapping weakness leaves many melee out in the cold for the simple fact that many jobs are only proficient in one weapon, and while jse weapons are amazing for people that need acc: What are you supposed to do when the melee lose 50+ acc, more considering skill, swapping to a new type?
    The point is that you would want to bring more than one DD, instead of just one DD and have them do all the damage. Instead of having a tank, a whm, a geo, and three black mages, or whatever the current nuking setups are, you'd do something like, say, MNK DRG DRK COR WHM BLM. That would cover piercing/ranged, slashing, blunt, and magic.

    The idea is to give a reason for people to want to bring jobs that otherwise can't get included because they bring nothing to the group. This will be done my giving them something they do bring, even if it's just a damage type.
    (0)

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