Apex Colibri {Can I have it?}

[cengeal]

How about "Apex monster that shifts its vulnerability between blunt, piercing/ranged, slashing, and magic, has a lot of HP, and gives a lot of CP, the combination of high CP per kill and rotating weakness meaning we're forcing you to bring a somewhat balanced party set up."

I mean, if I can get... What? 30 job points per minute on DNC with my eyes closed, make a monster with rotating weakness like that, give it roughly 250kHP, make it give 20 or 30 KCP per kill before bonuses (Honestly not sure what most stuff gives anymore as a base).

Party DPS will be reduced since you can't bring all the same exact thing, and the split between damage types means you'd need a more diverse party composition. The HP is not dramatically increased over other Apex mobs (I think they tend to have about half that), but the high HP combined with low overall DPS due to rotating weakness means they would take several times as long to kill. Adjust the CP accordingly, then add a bonus on top of that as a reward for bringing jobs along that no one likes for damage types. You now have an Apex mob that demands you bring melees, and rewards the party with higher CP/time for it.

Or instead of rotating weakness, make the damage from any single type go down the more of it is dealt relative to other damage types.

There's tons of things they could do that would incentivize diverse party set ups and melee inclusion. This specific example of an idea might not be entirely thought out, as I've not given it intensive, deep consideration, but I think it's better than most other choices.

I understand people might be pissed at the... not VW-y feeling, but the "you're forcing us to play X style" aspect.

I love the idea of the rotating weakness for a regular monster that gives a lot of CP. But if it absorbed damage it wasn't weak to (which is probably what SE would do) would make it pointless. This would be a great idea, and would definitely allow job diversity in a party. Or at least encourage jobs to do things outside of the norm.

[machini]

I love the idea of the rotating weakness for a regular monster that gives a lot of CP. But if it absorbed damage it wasn't weak to (which is probably what SE would do) would make it pointless. This would be a great idea, and would definitely allow job diversity in a party. Or at least encourage jobs to do things outside of the norm.

What would probably work best is "Monster takes severely reduced damage from everything except ______ damage type, which changes between blunt, slashing, piercing/ranged, and magic. The relatively higher HP of this monster compared to other Apex monsters, combined with the rotating damage resistance mean that it will take significantly longer to kill, perhaps 3-4 times as long. Therefore it gives proportionately more Capacity Points when killed, with an additional bonus on top of that for the fact that you actually have to have a 'more balanced' party set up, which encourages jobs that would never get brought to come out."

This isn't rocket surgery.

[Ulth]

If I still needed Job points I would just do them in reisenjima. At least that way you get silt and augment stones.

[detlef]

Your hypothetical monster sounds awful to fight and would just be ignored. Does anybody actually enjoy Temperance fights?

Also, is the 65536 CP/mob an actual cap or a display thing? Because if it's a real cap then there's no way anybody would pick your mob over existing mobs.

Maybe it IS rocket surgery.

[machini]

Your hypothetical monster sounds awful to fight and would just be ignored. Does anybody actually enjoy Temperance fights?

Also, is the 65536 CP/mob an actual cap or a display thing? Because if it's a real cap then there's no way anybody would pick your mob over existing mobs.

Maybe it IS rocket surgery.

Of course it's awful if you're one of those people who will only use the absolute laziest strategies for everything.

[OmnysValefor]

Of course it's awful if you're one of those people who will only use the absolute laziest strategies for everything.

In detlef's defense: He's right. That's what people want is something that can be efficiently and reliably taken down. Swapping weaknesses screws up the order of things and breaks a good chain for no good reason. It's why crabs are much more popular than bats--because their debuffs hurt the performance of the party (acc-down mainly, as most melee are in that range).

I said it earlier in the thread. People will sometimes start laying out four-ws SC's and I don't even want to bother.

Give us a boss/event that had mechanics and dropped multiple JP (like 10 or more)? I'd be down for that. But grinding away, I want to know that we can keep kill speed consistent. Lazy has nothing to do with it.

[Ketaru]

Your hypothetical monster sounds awful to fight and would just be ignored. Does anybody actually enjoy Temperance fights?

Also, is the 65536 CP/mob an actual cap or a display thing? Because if it's a real cap then there's no way anybody would pick your mob over existing mobs.

Maybe it IS rocket surgery.

If such a mob existed that gave a significant amount of CP for defeating it, I'm sure there would be more of an interest in it. The problem is that, for the entire of history of this game, enemies never rewarded players in a way that corresponded to their actual difficulty. Many of the NMs today are significantly more difficult to beat than Apex crabs. But I don't see them giving us one JP per kill.

[detlef]

If such a mob existed that gave a significant amount of CP for defeating it, I'm sure there would be more of an interest in it. The problem is that, for the entire of history of this game, enemies never rewarded players in a way that corresponded to their actual difficulty. Many of the NMs today are significantly more difficult to beat than Apex crabs. But I don't see them giving us one JP per kill.

Right, but I already gave a few reasons why such a mob probably couldn't give that significant amount of CP and why it still might not be competitive with existing options. It'd have to give multiple JP on kill and still have to be a very quick and straightforward fight for it to be an option.

Really, I think the only way to get people to fight such a mob would be to give it some kind of additional incentive beyond CP such as attractive drops or a copper voucher every kill or something.

[OmnysValefor]

A chunk of Bayld per kill along with a reliably cp rate.

Still, swapping weakness leaves many melee out in the cold for the simple fact that many jobs are only proficient in one weapon, and while jse weapons are amazing for people that need acc: What are you supposed to do when the melee lose 50+ acc, more considering skill, swapping to a new type?

[machini]

A chunk of Bayld per kill along with a reliably cp rate.

Still, swapping weakness leaves many melee out in the cold for the simple fact that many jobs are only proficient in one weapon, and while jse weapons are amazing for people that need acc: What are you supposed to do when the melee lose 50+ acc, more considering skill, swapping to a new type?

The point is that you would want to bring more than one DD, instead of just one DD and have them do all the damage. Instead of having a tank, a whm, a geo, and three black mages, or whatever the current nuking setups are, you'd do something like, say, MNK DRG DRK COR WHM BLM. That would cover piercing/ranged, slashing, blunt, and magic.

The idea is to give a reason for people to want to bring jobs that otherwise can't get included because they bring nothing to the group. This will be done my giving them something they do bring, even if it's just a damage type.