Apex Colibri {Can I have it?}

[machini]

"I am become Death, Apex of Colibiri."

[Ulth]

Well, Congratulations, you somehow managed to turn this into a personal feud. This is the problem with these forums: No matter what you try to do, there's always a cynical naysayer trying to destroy the thread with superficial arguments. For some reason, you don't seem to think this is a problem. And yes, I do play DRK. I do not claim to be great at it, but it's decently geared, and I have a good amount of magic accuracy to land absorb/drain spells, genius. There are certain monsters, like bats or undead, that you cannot reliably land absorb spells on. Therefore, those spells cannot be relied on 100% of the time. And I never said attack wasn't important, but accuracy is more important, and only a complete fool would argue that. So what if you can do a 10k Torcleaver 50% of the time? Not only are you missing, but the SC failed, as did the MB's. Therefore, the party fails because your accuracy as a DRK cannot keep up. Now if 2 THF's SC'd with Rudra's for crappy damage, they at least landed the SC and opened up MB opportunities.

If you think Rudra's is garbage, try any scythe WS. Claiming Rudra's to be garbage doesn't help your argument that 2H weapons don't need to be rehauled. And a WAR can do some very high damage with savage blade. As can RUN. As can any job that can use it. Because it's a powerful WS. It may not be the #1 option, or the ideal weapon choice for most jobs, but any job that can use Savage Blade has something good going for it. I have no problem with Savage Blade being powerful: I love it. It's a great WS. As somebody who's always enjoyed and only recently started to take it seriously, I just believe scythe should have it's own WS that can compare. And that WS shouldn't be exclusive to a weapon that takes months to make.

And yes, two handed weapons should be more powerful. Why should a WAR using a sword and shield be more powerful than a DRK with a scythe? Just because they would be better DD's does not make them the better jobs. DNC has so much more potential to it than DDing. THF has more uses than just being a DD. And don't get me started on how BLU would still be useful. My point is these lightweight jobs that dual wield should not come out on top of the heavy jobs. Despite being heavy, they can't take punishment without sacrificing their DPS. These jobs were supposed to be the best DD's, but that's far from being true.

I could spend hours dissecting your comments and tell you all the problems with what you've said, and I'm sure you could attempt to do the same to me. You make yourself look like a fool with your pathetic attempts of being condescending and sarcastic. You're not as smart as you think you are. Your attitude, mindset, and opinions have done nothing but make me dislike you. That is all you've accomplished here. Nothing else. You think you've made excellent points and arguments and destroyed mine by personally attacking my DRK and me as a player, assuming I don't have a magic accuracy set for drain and absorb spells. You made a complete evaluation on me based on what you think you know. Do yourself a favor and learn how to perform critical thinking.

Look up, that cynical naysayer trying to destroy the thread with a superficial argument is you, genius. The original poster stated that two hand weapons get less accuracy from their main and sub slots, and I showed it wasn't the case. That should of been the end of it, but then you chimed in with something unrelated and false, and well I just can't stand people being wrong on the internet. Of course I know that is a lost cause, especially with you. Personally I think I do a outstanding job of being condescending and sarcastic, and while you say you could spend hours pointing out the things wrong I've said, if your previous posts are any indicator, I'm sure you will just keep redirecting the topic to something unrelated and projecting your own insecurities.

[OmnysValefor]

Seems this thread has verged away a bit from the OP but reading the title all I could think of was how hellacious snatch morsel spam is going to be on a mob where you probably need sublime sushi to hit it. ;3

And then the tank eats food with evasion on it.

Well, in my defense, I said in the OP that the evasion should be about 50 (maybe heavier) less than other mobs so that the parties without bard/cor/geo (because they can still happen) still can hit the mob, though Distract, Distract II do exist.

---

I agree with Prometus.. why must people on these boards just be about deflating harmless ideas intended to help the playerbase? It would not take much development effort to create an Apex Colibri and would be a fun nostalgia trip for a lot of people. NIN tanking colibri was some of the most fun I ever had in this game, surrounded by several sleeping birds just waiting to try to kill you.

I guess i'll go back to

/yell {main} {Flash} {Can I have it?} {Front line job} {Can I have it?} GEO SCH BLM {Can I have it?}

Ignore the melee, they're not going to bosses anyway.

The original poster stated that two hand weapons get less accuracy from their main and sub slots, and I showed it wasn't the case. That should of been the end of it, but then you chimed in with something unrelated and false, and well I just can't stand people being wrong on the internet.

You did, you showed that with one series of weapons. Better damage weapons still suffer the same problem though.

[Ulth]

You did, you showed that with one series of weapons. Better damage weapons still suffer the same problem though.

Okay drk again, but since I guess there is no love for scythes and you prefer greatswords Ragnarok 119 III has 60 accuracy when the best RME daggers would be mythic while offhanding Empyrean. Neither mythic dagger has additional accuracy added to it while Twashtar Has 50 dex, So that is 37.5 accuracy for the daggers while Ragnarok has 60. Of course Apocalypse also has +60 accuracy on it.

[cengeal]

Look up, that cynical naysayer trying to destroy the thread with a superficial argument is you, genius. The original poster stated that two hand weapons get less accuracy from their main and sub slots, and I showed it wasn't the case. That should of been the end of it, but then you chimed in with something unrelated and false, and well I just can't stand people being wrong on the internet. Of course I know that is a lost cause, especially with you. Personally I think I do a outstanding job of being condescending and sarcastic, and while you say you could spend hours pointing out the things wrong I've said, if your previous posts are any indicator, I'm sure you will just keep redirecting the topic to something unrelated and projecting your own insecurities.

You're right, I did get off topic quite a bit, and I have no problem admitting that. That's because the current game design is largely discriminatory against 2H jobs. You proved that a single weapon + a specific grip had more accuracy than 2 daggers combined. Excluding relics, you could make that point maybe two more times (new GA and polearm augments). The 119 weapons from Oboro can be augmented with a lot of accuracy, and the augments on most are pretty amazing, but that doesn't really fix the discrepancy. Those single weapons are exceptions, because they are single weapons. And what I said was not false: Scythe WS's are terrible, no amount of accuracy will change that (although i can't speak for Apocalypse owners, as I do not have one). DRK got kind of screwed there. Even though they have an A+ in scythe, GS is the better weapon choice.

Rudra's is not a garbage WS. It may not be the best, but it's far better than Wasp Sting. I may have gone off on a bit of a tangent, but what I said is hardly irrelevant to the spirit of the thread. Often times when you look at numbers (which is exactly what you did), you don't see the whole picture.

I think the real problem here is you're convinced your opinion is superior to others'. Because I took the effort and time to dig deeper to explain why the scythe and grip combo isn't as great as it may appear on paper, you became stubborn. I like to think that I at least tried to see your point of view, but I realize I may have failed at that. Rather than try to see it from my point of view, or at least play devil's advocate, you immediately went to the "No, I'm right and you're wrong," mindset. You started making assumptions about me based on a fact I stated (absorb spells don't always work), thus making a fool out of yourself. You also went off topic yourself, but apparently that's only a big deal if I do it. It seems that you're allowed to criticize other people, but they're not allowed to criticize you.

So how about this: If more people say I'm the cynical naysayer than people say you are, I won't post on this thread again. Your inability to demonstrate any sense of humility would only help my case at this point.

[machini]

I agree with Prometus.. why must people on these boards just be about deflating harmless ideas intended to help the playerbase? It would not take much development effort to create an Apex Colibri and would be a fun nostalgia trip for a lot of people.

I mean no offense to you personally, as I am fairly ignorant of your knowledge, but a great many people who post on these forums are extremely lacking in knowledge of how some (n.b.: most) of the game mechanics work, have a very limited grasp of how the mechanics can interact with each other, and an extremely limited grasp of the kind of technical challenges involved in adding even the "simplest" functionality -- just go look up some of the threads where people have gone on and on and on about how easy it would by for Squeenix to make a 'classic' server for a perfect example of people who are entirely ignorant on a subject demonstrating the Dunning-Kruger effect.

If you were to make an Apex mob that had 'low' evasion so that people who can barely hit 1000 accuracy could go into full DPS mode, that's going to have the effect of all those people who buff up to 1100~1200 accuracy to kill the more evasive apex mobs to go kill the ones that are easier to hit, and instead of needing all that accuracy buffage they'll just get more attack, double attack, haste, etc, etc, and tear through them even harder, especially when you consider that birds are weak to getting stabbed in the face.

On top of that, Colibri steal food, iirc. If you want a truly authentic experience, you're going to have to have those DRKs and SAMs who require that sublime sushi to cap hit rate constantly have to eat a new piece on every mob when it steals their food.

Accuracy is something that needs to be adjusted, as it is getting kind of ridiculous at this point, especially when some of the Oboro 119 JSE gear has higher accuracy than that job's mythic weapons.

One of the things that, unfortunately, must be considered when adding "easier" content like this is that if it's sufficiently easier, it becomes trivial to people who find "normal" content to be "easy".

I can kill Apex Efts solo on DNC without much difficulty. Or I could, it's probably easier now that I've had gear upgrades. With trusts and a bit of luck, I can kill an Apex Eft in 2 minutes or less. Again, it's been a while since I tried, I could probably do it slightly faster now. These things require 1150~1160 accuracy to cap hit rate if you don't have and -enemy evasion down effects, I think. I know with Koru and ~1120 acc I seem to never miss. Anyway. Point is, if those Apex Colibri give just half the CAP that those efts do, but I can kill them 4 times as fast, then it's better off for me to go kill them. Less cap per kill, but more total because of faster kills.

Now I'm just one person with trusts. If I had an actual human BLM or, better still, a GEO there with me to magic burst off of my back to back self double darknesses, that kills them even faster. And if it's a GEO, now not only am I already capped on hit rate without having to throw on any accuracy gear (meaning I can throw on all my straight up damage gear) but now I have 40% more attack and the bird has ...-27%? defense, meaning I'm going to murder those weak to getting stabbed in the face birds even faster.

Yes, some jobs have higher accuracy than others, and some difference between the jobs is nice, as it helps keep all of them from just being the exact same things with different skins like in other MMOs I could name. The problem is when the disparity becomes so great it's impossible for most people to do anything effectively on anything approaching worth doing. Should jobs with ridiculously high levels of Accuracy Bonus have higher accuracy than jobs that have none? Yes. Should a DRK with the same amount of +accuracy from gear and gifts be 250 total accuracy behind my DNC? No.

[Vae]

Does every thread have to meltdown into the same old shit, i mean really.

We all know it's quite unequally balanced against melee right now, pretty obviously. All he wants is a slightly easier mob to allow the lesser players to be able to play.

Colibri is just the easiest mob you can go with, except maybe Apex Toads, which have zero tp moves.

The details are irrelevant. You either want lesser players to be able to gain "reasonable" cp on unbalanced melee jobs, or you don't. Arguing about drk and scythe and random shit accomplishes nothing.

[machini]

Does every thread have to meltdown into the same old shit, i mean really.

We all know it's quite unequally balanced against melee right now, pretty obviously. All he wants is a slightly easier mob to allow the lesser players to be able to play.

Colibri is just the easiest mob you can go with, except maybe Apex Toads, which have zero tp moves.

The details are irrelevant. You either want lesser players to be able to gain "reasonable" cp on unbalanced melee jobs, or you don't. Arguing about drk and scythe and random shit accomplishes nothing.

Adding easier Apex mobs will let those "lesser" players get capacity points. It won't give them the 200/+ accuracy they're missing to allow them to do any relevant end-game content.

I'd rather fix the cause of the problem instead of treat the symptoms. Slapping band aids on the stumps of severed limbs doesn't staunch the flow.

[machini]

Of course, I'd also like a million dollars and a particle wave ray gun, but I don't see that happening any time soon, either.

[Vae]

They just want something to do other than stand around in adoulin. No one is taking melee to anything content wise. Elemental magic only.

The problems with melee are quite apparent, this thread isn't the place to bring them up.

Yes, magic needs a large nerf, yes immanence needs to be removed, yes magic bursts need to be cut in half or lower, yes enmity for mages is non-existant, yes mobs are way to evasive, yes aoe damage is astronomical to dd, yes debuffs are far too numerous, yes tp move spam and regain is ABSURD. Eventually they'll fix all that (2017)