Apex Colibri {Can I have it?}

[Ulth]

You did, you showed that with one series of weapons. Better damage weapons still suffer the same problem though.

Okay drk again, but since I guess there is no love for scythes and you prefer greatswords Ragnarok 119 III has 60 accuracy when the best RME daggers would be mythic while offhanding Empyrean. Neither mythic dagger has additional accuracy added to it while Twashtar Has 50 dex, So that is 37.5 accuracy for the daggers while Ragnarok has 60. Of course Apocalypse also has +60 accuracy on it.

[machini]

I agree with Prometus.. why must people on these boards just be about deflating harmless ideas intended to help the playerbase? It would not take much development effort to create an Apex Colibri and would be a fun nostalgia trip for a lot of people.

I mean no offense to you personally, as I am fairly ignorant of your knowledge, but a great many people who post on these forums are extremely lacking in knowledge of how some (n.b.: most) of the game mechanics work, have a very limited grasp of how the mechanics can interact with each other, and an extremely limited grasp of the kind of technical challenges involved in adding even the "simplest" functionality -- just go look up some of the threads where people have gone on and on and on about how easy it would by for Squeenix to make a 'classic' server for a perfect example of people who are entirely ignorant on a subject demonstrating the Dunning-Kruger effect.

If you were to make an Apex mob that had 'low' evasion so that people who can barely hit 1000 accuracy could go into full DPS mode, that's going to have the effect of all those people who buff up to 1100~1200 accuracy to kill the more evasive apex mobs to go kill the ones that are easier to hit, and instead of needing all that accuracy buffage they'll just get more attack, double attack, haste, etc, etc, and tear through them even harder, especially when you consider that birds are weak to getting stabbed in the face.

On top of that, Colibri steal food, iirc. If you want a truly authentic experience, you're going to have to have those DRKs and SAMs who require that sublime sushi to cap hit rate constantly have to eat a new piece on every mob when it steals their food.

Accuracy is something that needs to be adjusted, as it is getting kind of ridiculous at this point, especially when some of the Oboro 119 JSE gear has higher accuracy than that job's mythic weapons.

One of the things that, unfortunately, must be considered when adding "easier" content like this is that if it's sufficiently easier, it becomes trivial to people who find "normal" content to be "easy".

I can kill Apex Efts solo on DNC without much difficulty. Or I could, it's probably easier now that I've had gear upgrades. With trusts and a bit of luck, I can kill an Apex Eft in 2 minutes or less. Again, it's been a while since I tried, I could probably do it slightly faster now. These things require 1150~1160 accuracy to cap hit rate if you don't have and -enemy evasion down effects, I think. I know with Koru and ~1120 acc I seem to never miss. Anyway. Point is, if those Apex Colibri give just half the CAP that those efts do, but I can kill them 4 times as fast, then it's better off for me to go kill them. Less cap per kill, but more total because of faster kills.

Now I'm just one person with trusts. If I had an actual human BLM or, better still, a GEO there with me to magic burst off of my back to back self double darknesses, that kills them even faster. And if it's a GEO, now not only am I already capped on hit rate without having to throw on any accuracy gear (meaning I can throw on all my straight up damage gear) but now I have 40% more attack and the bird has ...-27%? defense, meaning I'm going to murder those weak to getting stabbed in the face birds even faster.

Yes, some jobs have higher accuracy than others, and some difference between the jobs is nice, as it helps keep all of them from just being the exact same things with different skins like in other MMOs I could name. The problem is when the disparity becomes so great it's impossible for most people to do anything effectively on anything approaching worth doing. Should jobs with ridiculously high levels of Accuracy Bonus have higher accuracy than jobs that have none? Yes. Should a DRK with the same amount of +accuracy from gear and gifts be 250 total accuracy behind my DNC? No.

[OmnysValefor]

Machini I took no offense at your replies.

I do understand the mechanics of the game and that people love it when the grind is mindless and simple, which is why we kill crabs the way we do. If you could macro movement, you could macro your role in great apex parties. The Tank WS's mob, flashes next mob while partner ws's. The tank tries to keep things lined up so that /autotarget engages the next mob. The mages, accounting for their own fastcast, no when to start casting so that their big nukes land at the opportune time and are casting another in case of a resist/shell at a poor time.

I had a wall of text to reply to you, but I'll be honest: The Accuracy augments on JSE weapons, aside from being expensive if you are fresh/freshly returning and not sitting on a pile of r/b/p (it will probably go down in weeks/months) goes a long long way towards helping people reach apex-level accuracy. /eggonmyface in that regard, but I've already owned that.

If, as a dnc or war, your shiny new escha weapon lowers your accuracy so far that you can't hit the mobs, then you're just not ready to use it, and that's fine. That's not bad design. The problem lies in design of the target mobs so heavily favoring mages.

Haste is all over melee gear at all ilvls. It's hard not to haste cap and nearly every melee player has "good" haste. With Haste/Haste II and Haste/Regain buffs from support roles, everyone is TPing fast.

If I invite a very geared thf and a newbie war to a "bird party", I'll find an SC war can open because the thf will do better ws damage, so should close. This also gives the warrior a second/two lead to start re-getting TP while the thf times her ws. The THF may well tp so fast that she still beats the warrior back to 1000 but the gap won't be so bad that the party is greatly suffering for the war's presence but that's kind of where crabs have us because melee don't get geo bubbles in crab parties. In most crab parties melee get Haste 1 and indi-haste if they're smart enough to be close enough to the geo. They don't get Minuet or Madrigal but the reward for buffing melee is not as potent as the reward for buffing mages.

Copying a mob is also not a terribly difficult thing to do, which is why every mmo does it so much. It's why we're fighting most of the same mobs at 119+ we were fighting in Dunes. It requires tweaking of stats and testing, for sure, but it's not an overly complex process. None of us can say what SE actually goes through to copy a monster, but they do it plenty, they have it down to a science--literally.

[machini]

[snippety snip]

I agree with more or less everything you said. I am particularly loved by some people in my linkshell because I am more than willing to take new/undergeared players to delve/hard mode fights/whatnot to help them gear. A lot of the content they find hard I find relatively easy. And my inquiry into your understanding of the mechanics was solely because I have found that a lot of the difficulty new/returning/undergeared players (which I was fairly sure you were not, but I figured I'd check anyway) have with content is not that they do not have the tools/gear available to do it, but simply that they don't realize they do and don't know how or when to do it. A lot of people (who are not uber leet end game people, which I don't consider myself, considering I'm not BiS geared on most anything) act as though /RUN doesn't exist at all, and have no idea how or what the JAs do, but after going into avatar fights a couple of times and seeing me get hit for 500~900 damage by stuff that hits them for 2000/+ damage can really help, as a lot of people don't view subjobs as situational, for just one example. Another would be not understanding the interaction between Haste and DW/MA. Telling people to throw on (and often helping them get) "simple" stuff like the delve DW earrings can be a pretty major DPS increase for them, and from my experience in helping gear people like this, they think that the 'old' gear is worthless, and then because they can't get the latest and greatest gear they get majorly discouraged, so showing them that there is gear in their grasp that they can get with a little help or a little perseverance helps, 'cause I've seen people get discouraged and quit because "there's so much to do to catch up" when it could be done relatively quickly, if they knew how.

I had a friend who wanted to play BLU give up and quit the game for several months because she felt completely useless (we had just started gearing her BLU), and she had no jobs that were 99 that weren't in spark gear. When she resubbed, in less than a week she was hitting ~1100 accuracy with <100 job points and feeling really silly over getting so discouraged and quitting (when I was telling her it wouldn't take long to get her up to speed and she didn't listen).

I'm sorry, I've completely forget what I was supposed to be talking about.

[Ketaru]

Right you are. Savage blade can be used effectively by pld, war, and rdm yet I never hear people complain about those jobs doing too much damage

Well yeah. People always want to see the job du jour nerfed, even if others must necessarily be pushed under the bus along with them.

[machini]

"I am become Death, Apex of Colibiri."

[Vae]

Does every thread have to meltdown into the same old shit, i mean really.

We all know it's quite unequally balanced against melee right now, pretty obviously. All he wants is a slightly easier mob to allow the lesser players to be able to play.

Colibri is just the easiest mob you can go with, except maybe Apex Toads, which have zero tp moves.

The details are irrelevant. You either want lesser players to be able to gain "reasonable" cp on unbalanced melee jobs, or you don't. Arguing about drk and scythe and random shit accomplishes nothing.

[machini]

Does every thread have to meltdown into the same old shit, i mean really.

We all know it's quite unequally balanced against melee right now, pretty obviously. All he wants is a slightly easier mob to allow the lesser players to be able to play.

Colibri is just the easiest mob you can go with, except maybe Apex Toads, which have zero tp moves.

The details are irrelevant. You either want lesser players to be able to gain "reasonable" cp on unbalanced melee jobs, or you don't. Arguing about drk and scythe and random shit accomplishes nothing.

Adding easier Apex mobs will let those "lesser" players get capacity points. It won't give them the 200/+ accuracy they're missing to allow them to do any relevant end-game content.

I'd rather fix the cause of the problem instead of treat the symptoms. Slapping band aids on the stumps of severed limbs doesn't staunch the flow.

[machini]

Of course, I'd also like a million dollars and a particle wave ray gun, but I don't see that happening any time soon, either.

[Vae]

They just want something to do other than stand around in adoulin. No one is taking melee to anything content wise. Elemental magic only.

The problems with melee are quite apparent, this thread isn't the place to bring them up.

Yes, magic needs a large nerf, yes immanence needs to be removed, yes magic bursts need to be cut in half or lower, yes enmity for mages is non-existant, yes mobs are way to evasive, yes aoe damage is astronomical to dd, yes debuffs are far too numerous, yes tp move spam and regain is ABSURD. Eventually they'll fix all that (2017)