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  1. #71
    Player Alhanelem's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    7,105
    Character
    Tahngarthor
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    If they had ANY semblance of balance, I wouldn't have this issue.
    This is totally true, but it doesn't invalidate anything.You're doing something SE said over a decade ago was going to take forever. They aren't good at balance, but I can't think of there having been 14 flavors-of-the-month over the years. Most of the time it's been SAM lol.... before the great nerf it was RNG.

    At any rate the point was, it's not like there's a law that you must upgrade all of them. I had completed the mythic staff up until the heavy metal plate stage (where I gave up and went back to the relic I had started ages before). well, since they're for the same jobs I guess it's a little different. But do you really need to upgrade them all?

    I do sympathize with your plight in a sense- but they clearly didn't expect anyone to do so many. I didn't post that to upset you, but obviously the parameters were set the way they are because


    1) o the (now) outdated assumption that most people would have one or two of these things. However over time the difficulty of the grind fell enough that many players considered making weapons when previously it was too daunting for all but the most dedicated.
    2) they don't want to totally ruin things for the people, however few there are, who did afterglows. Of course the y could have just offered non-afterglow versions, but that's another topic altogether =\
    (0)
    Last edited by Alhanelem; 02-19-2016 at 11:22 AM.

  2. #72
    Player Vae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    244
    Character
    Vaelira
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    Every job, at some point has been the pinnacle of use. Even dragoon had moment(s) in the sun. A very small moment, a very long time ago. At some point this phrase has always been used:

    "A (jobnamehere) is a *MUST have for this (thing we're about to do)" Or at least like in DRGs case, "it would be ideal to have a (jobnamehere)".

    Pup is possibly the only job that has never been in the spotlight, and that spotlight is kinda on pup right now, though the people who play pup are smart enough to keep that on the DL so bandwagons don't ruin it.

    You -DO- have to upgrade them all. What's the point in having/making them if all they can do is collect dust.
    (0)
    Last edited by Vae; 02-19-2016 at 11:22 AM.

  3. #73
    Player Karbuncle's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    4,314
    Quote Originally Posted by Alhanelem View Post
    In fairness: Players were never meant to get 14 superweapons. The original design called for them to take at least a year to create when they were introduced. By their estimation, you should ahve just gotten your 12th one or so if you never did anything else in the game.

    It w as your choice to get that many, now it's your choice which ones you want to actually use.
    I remember them saying that and I get what you're saying here, but thats not a fair excuse to use, at all. They know darn well it wont take a year to get one of these weapons anymore, it not like it crept up on them slowly or that we're to blame from zealoted farming... they're the ones who have made the adjustments to Salvage and Dynamis to be much more accessible. They're the ones who removed the time entering restrictions too, so I mean... they know what they did.

    They know they're player base better than we think, I know they know there are people out there with multiple Ultimate weapons, lots of them... so I have to assume they thought 10k per was reasonable for people with 7 or 8 of them, thinking they'll pick their favorite and work on the others slowly.... Which is where I can strongly disagree with their choice.

    I understand they want these to be a difficult thing to obtain for many players, its the likely final stage of Ultimate weapons... hell, Its not even terribly bad with the campaign right now... I'll do it but i don't have to like it!

    I remember a while back I was perusing FFXIAH achievements and some dude had every single relic weapon and a few mythics. Bet they'd be killing themselves about now if they even played. lol
    (1)
    Last edited by Karbuncle; 02-19-2016 at 11:28 AM.

  4. #74
    Player Alhanelem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    7,105
    Character
    Tahngarthor
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    You -DO- have to upgrade them all. What's the point in having/making them if all they can do is collect dust.
    Are you actually going to use every one of these things? I know people who made them just to make them. Although I had other functional reasons in mind, I didn't create a Claustrum specifically to become a superior summoner. I partially did it just to join the rather exclusive club of people who posessed one (and partially to enhance my style of play, mainly when playing solo).

    So yes- there are people who got them as collector's pieces, knowing that they were not the greatest weapons. Then there were some who did it for science e.g. to get data on the weapon skills. There's more than one reason people created these weapons, and not all of them were specifically to mash monster's heads in.

    Pup is possibly the only job that has never been in the spotlight, and that spotlight is kinda on pup right now,
    True. but RNF has never been particularly desired either, although maybe I was sick the day it was popuilar?

    ------------------------------------

    Karb, you do have a point, but they're obviously using outdated thinking. But could they have made these trials much shorter without producing a torrent of tears from people who already did the afterglow?

    (Obviously, i'm of the camp that it was stupid to design it this way in the first place, JUST MAKE NONAFTERGLOW VERSIONS, but... yeah...)
    (1)
    Last edited by Alhanelem; 02-19-2016 at 11:30 AM.

  5. #75
    Player Sapphires's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    130
    Character
    Sapphire
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    Pick your favorite job and weapon and glow that one first.
    The power increase from the last stage upgrade isn't going to magically let you beat content you didn't before, nor is it going to magically break the current metagame for the remaining high end content or get you in a apex party on a job people didn't want to bring beforehand.

    People need to check their sense of entitlement to the latest RME upgrade. In a game that won't be doing large content updates anymore, people are certainly in a hurry to complain there is nothing to do by wanting the afterglow upgrade to be made easier.
    (0)
    Death Penalty / Terpsichore / Murgleis / Nagi / Kikoku / Armageddon / Twashtar

  6. #76
    Player machini's Avatar
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    Dec 2013
    Posts
    338
    Character
    Ivlilla
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphires View Post
    Pick your favorite job and weapon and glow that one first.
    The power increase from the last stage upgrade isn't going to magically let you beat content you didn't before, nor is it going to magically break the current metagame for the remaining high end content or get you in a apex party on a job people didn't want to bring beforehand.

    People need to check their sense of entitlement to the latest RME upgrade. In a game that won't be doing large content updates anymore, people are certainly in a hurry to complain there is nothing to do by wanting the afterglow upgrade to be made easier.
    You mistake entitlement with frustration with SE's decision to undo a design choice they made, and up til now had stuck to, simply because adding 2 versions of each of the upgraded weapons, for afterglow and nonafterglow paths, and then afterglow trial/upgrade for the non-afterglow ones, was too much work.

    Meanwhile, they're making mounts.

    Part of what is frustrating here is how the man hours they have available are being allocated.
    (0)

  7. #77
    Player Mithlas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    152
    Character
    Mithlas
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    COR Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by machini View Post
    You mistake entitlement with frustration with SE's decision to undo a design choice they made, and up til now had stuck to, simply because adding 2 versions of each of the upgraded weapons, for afterglow and nonafterglow paths, and then afterglow trial/upgrade for the non-afterglow ones, was too much work.

    Meanwhile, they're making mounts.

    Part of what is frustrating here is how the man hours they have available are being allocated.
    Emphasizing something that could be held off to design better content items/balance issues/etc.
    (2)

  8. #78
    Player Sapphires's Avatar
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    Jul 2012
    Posts
    130
    Character
    Sapphire
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    Not everything added to XI from here on out has to be more endgame monsters and more loot+power creep.
    Work on job balance? The meta just will shift and then a different majority of the 22 jobs will be told to get lost when doing whatever content it is that's relevant.
    All mmos should just fiddle with job balance a bit every few months to stir the pot and make people play something different awhile.

    The work on mounts is actually interesting, and maybe it will open the door to make combat while on a mounts possible, give people a reason to not instawarp everywhere, or something new noone has thought of.
    That's the great thing about game dev is that working on different things sometimes leads to new and fresh things.

    Maybe they'll mess around with monstrosity again after that, or social/aesthetic upgrades or QoL stuff.

    I'd much prefer the dev team work on a diverse set of things.
    (2)
    Death Penalty / Terpsichore / Murgleis / Nagi / Kikoku / Armageddon / Twashtar

  9. #79
    Player machini's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    338
    Character
    Ivlilla
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    And while that is your opinion and your desire, there are others of us who really wish game balance was the highest priority at this point, since development is winding down, and we don't want to be stuck for the rest of the game's life span, however long that my be, with a retarded meta where people only ever play six different jobs.

    Not to mention the fact that a lot of the decisions in general feel rushed and not at all thought through.
    (2)

  10. #80
    Player Alhanelem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    7,105
    Character
    Tahngarthor
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithlas View Post
    Emphasizing something that could be held off to design better content items/balance issues/etc.
    Some people do want different mounts and have been asking for it for years, actually. There's a lot of worse ways they could be spending their time.

    Machini, I'm of the camp that getting better game balance is a pipe dream. Even games with a whole team dedicated to game balance, there are still flaws, still things being used in unexpected and unplanned ways, etc. So it's almost a waste of time beyond the biggest critical issues.
    (1)
    Last edited by Alhanelem; 02-20-2016 at 02:38 AM.

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