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  1. #11
    Player Alhanelem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    7,097
    Character
    Tahngarthor
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    b) How are they hurting you?
    They hurt people by continually wrecking them, e.g. you don't get a chance to get credit for them. Lair reieves are super squishy.
    (0)

  2. #12
    Player Stompa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Remora
    Posts
    633
    Character
    Nebula
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Pups323 View Post
    I know name/shaming/witch hunting isnt allowed, but can we take a minute to talk about the giant afk elephant in the room?

    I did a quick tour of marjame ravine and found every lair had 1-2 people at it. No one responded to tells, and they stayed there for 48+ hours at a time.

    I check when i wake up at 5 am, when i get home at 4 pm, and before bed at 10pm.

    So I wonder to myself how prevalent the problem is so i did a quick survey and found the same issue in kamhir drift, and morimar basalt. Even to a lesser extent in inner/outer raz.

    A seemingly endless supply of people drinking enough red bull to kill the same lair every 5 minutes for 24/7.

    Now i have taken to STF to report said people a few times. In fact, every day for almost a month straight. And guess what, my list of over 20+ people who do this 24/7 are still there.

    So my only conclusion is this activity must be allowed. I've heard in the past this was punished and people recieved bans, but I am just not seeing it.

    Same on this server, Marjami has a few /anon /noLS /randomname mithras spamming the lair and colo reives at flux 4, on a loop for 24/7. I noticed this because I keep changing my Seekers ring which costs me 300k bayld every time (lol) and I have changed it around nine times now. And I farm bayld from Coalition runs (mainly) WKR sometimes, and top up my bayld by spanking a few reives in Marjami. Every time I go there, the same mithras are killing the flux 4 reives on a tight loop, day and night.

    They are not all AFK, but yes they do play 24 hours a day. If you watch documentaries about RMT Sweatshops, they are often homeless children who are locked in basements full of old PCs, and being forced to play 24 hrs/day for basic food and a blanket. It is a very cruel life, and they are mistreated if they don't play efficiently enough. They are ordered not to answer /tells or add friends in games, this coupled with (in many cases) lack of basic English, is why you don't get replies. They aren't AFK, they're just doing what they're told to do. You may notice that if you try to talk to them, sometimes they will run-away and log off for a while, this is because they are not allowed to communicate with "real" players.

    This problem of course exists in all the other online games to varying degrees, and it is not a failing of FFXI specifically. FFXI is on /shelfmode now and has a small team working on it, so there isn't the manpower to track this type of activity. The other problem is that XPing and building a serviceable lvl 99 character has now become so super fast and easy, even when an offender get banned, they are right back the next week on a new character.

    Dynamis Qufim is the most obvious place for this, there is a taru team working the same 4 camps 24/7, again /anon /noLS /randomnames and again they don't answer tells. They will sometimes get frightened and log-off if you /tell them.

    On one level I feel sorry for the ones who are sweatshop kids, it is a global humanitarian crime by any standards. But at the same time, this activity does ruin the computergame for most normal players, who may only have a single free hour in the evening, to farm Reives or Dynamis. We are all victims of one kind or another, in this often brutal RMT experiment, nobody really wins. It is sorrowful to see it, and while I have sympathy for the mistreated kids, I still always hope to see the camp-dominating teams get booted from this and all online games.
    (3)

  3. #13
    Player OmnysValefor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    1,186
    Quote Originally Posted by Stompa View Post
    If you watch documentaries about RMT Sweatshops, they are often homeless children who are locked in basements full of old PCs, and being forced to play 24 hrs/day for basic food and a blanket. It is a very cruel life, and they are mistreated if they don't play efficiently enough. They are ordered not to answer /tells or add friends in games, this coupled with (in many cases) lack of basic English, is why you don't get replies. They aren't AFK, they're just doing what they're told to do. You may notice that if you try to talk to them, sometimes they will run-away and log off for a while, this is because they are not allowed to communicate with "real" players.
    Holy...wow. ; ;

    But yeah, there are also reive bots too. Someone I knew was banned (rightfully) for running such a bot.
    (2)

  4. #14
    Player Pups323's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    75
    Character
    Alzula
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    There are also people still afk killing.

    Come on people, when you are in a zone for 24/7 and you move at 90 degree angles its supper obvious. The worst part, is you can report them and they are still there 4 months later still doing it on another job. I have tried in game reports, and STF reports and some people just seem immune to punishment.
    (1)

  5. #15
    Player Pups323's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    75
    Character
    Alzula
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by peculiar View Post
    a) Why do you care?
    b) How are they hurting you?
    c) Why should someone respond to you if they don't want to? Just because you respond that means everyone has to?
    d) How do you know they aren't just zonked there and afk most of the time? Just because they are there doesn't mean they are THERE the full time.

    Lastly, why would you actively seek to get people banned for something that has almost no impact on you at all?
    Still chaps me that an obvious guilty party would come in here and try to defend it...

    Example A:
    You see a long line to check out at a grociery store. Do you wait in line for your turn, or go to the front of the line and cut in?

    Most people will wait in line, you are not anonymous, and people can see who you are and what you are doing.

    Example B:
    You are in a car and see a long line of cars in the exit ramp/turn lane. Do you wait in line, or drive to the front and cut in?

    Due to the anonymous nature of cars, more people are willing to be rude and try to cut to he front and possess one of the following mind sets of:
    'its just cars, who am i hurting by doing this'
    'i am the smartest person ever check out this short cut'
    'i only do it because everyone else does it, and if i dont, i have to wait longer'.

    Finally, you get to example 3:
    You see a long tedious grind for something in a game (basically a line you must wait in to get to where you want to be). Do you grind it out and earn it, or do you cheat to get it without working?

    Now due to the lack of real world consequences to most actions taken in video games, the number of people willing to say 'cheat' grows exponentially, with the justifications becoming more outlandish.

    'Who does it hurt, i am only benefiting myself'
    'why do you care what i do in an online game'

    As you can see, the more detached from human interaction you get, the more people try to justify bad behavior. It
    'its only a game, and games are supposed to be fun!'
    (2)

  6. #16
    Player Hoshi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurstian
    Posts
    456
    Character
    Hoshiku
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    RNG Lv 99
    Your examples aren't really comparable. The fastest/easiest way to make an ergon weapon is to buy HPB. As a buyer I was glad to find people who would sell me 400 HPB a day every day because 13099 is a pretty big number. The people selling 400 HPB (who are likely botting) aren't cutting any sort of a line - they're probably not even making ergons themselves. They are cheating, but they aren't denying you from also participating in a reive. You could camp with them and both get lower evals but still get all the other things you mentioned wanting from a reive. I don't think SE is going to clue in to how hard it is to get HPB even if you get every single bot on every server banned. They've decided that their system works and not much is going to change that with the number of ergons already completed.
    (0)

  7. #17
    Player wfoley's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    18
    Character
    Likard
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    But it does in fact hurt everyone, even if it makes it easier for someone to make an ergon. 1. As Pups said, it artificially inflates the economy with HPB, making SE feel like the current ways to gain it are enough.
    2. It prevents legitimate players from getting as much contribution from reives.
    3. It raises the supply and thus lowers the selling value of HPB. With no bots, in the current system, HPB acquisition rate would be so low that it would be valued at more than 30k a pop. Thus botters hurt legit players' income as well by artificially driving down the economy.
    4. It then drives gil to the cheating players who can then pay higher prices for other items making it even more difficult for legit players to buy ,say, crafted materials. IE, the rich get richer, the poor stay poor.
    Sure, it makes it easier to make ergons, but it without a doubt hurts the entire server economy.
    (1)

  8. #18
    Player OmnysValefor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    1,186
    So either you have two states. You have the state of HMP: Good luck finding some (not even that common during event) or the state of HP Bayld: Not hard to find, the bots will get it for you.

    :/

    There's Alexandrite too, but many jobs can solo Salvage II now, so it's a large investment of time or gil, your choice.
    (1)

  9. #19
    Player detlef's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,640
    Character
    Philemon
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 99
    RMT just doesn't seem to be an issue these days but I could be wrong. I think the vast majority of reive botters were actual players because you could check them and see their linkshells and everything. At least that is how it was.

    Obviously letting people run wild on Reives isn't tenable but as I stated earlier I'd rather SE not go crazy with bans until a better, more sustainable HPB solution is introduced to the game. Then by all means.
    (0)

  10. #20
    Player Hoshi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurstian
    Posts
    456
    Character
    Hoshiku
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    RNG Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by OmnysValefor View Post
    So either you have two states. You have the state of HMP: Good luck finding some (not even that common during event) or the state of HP Bayld: Not hard to find, the bots will get it for you.

    :/
    So much this. As is people have to server transfer to get enough HPB from some servers. I'd hate to see it become that much harder to make an ergon.
    (0)

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